Unbelievable Discovery - "singing metal"!

[Funfinder]

Seems this effect has somehting to do with:

E.M.-Resonance or "magnetic coupled resonance"

The old Tesla-Trafo's already could transmit electrical energy and with today's "Wireless Electricity" you can light a 60Watt lamp over 2Meters. Those devices use 10MHz. btw. they are also using large copper-coils for this.

I guess in our case the E.M. field get's some sort of short-cut because of the horseshoe-bow causing the eddy-currents to transform the magnetic resonance into pulsing metal-atoms that strong vibrating, a sound is audible. I'm shure this effect is somewhere described already, but where?

[J_Player]

Seems this effect has somehting to do with:

E.M.-Resonance or "magnetic coupled resonance"

The old Tesla-Trafo's already could transmit electrical energy and with today's "Wireless Electricity" you can light a 60Watt lamp over 2Meters. Those devices use 10MHz. btw. they are also using large copper-coils for this.

I guess in our case the E.M. field get's some sort of short-cut because of the horseshoe-bow causing the eddy-currents to transform the magnetic resonance into pulsing metal-atoms that strong vibrating, a sound is audible. I'm shure this effect is somewhere described already, but where?

I think it is described in solenoid theory, where an alternating magnetic field will cause a force to be exerted on an iron plunger and make it move. In your case, it is fairly high frequency AC in the audio range that is probably causing the horse shoe to vibrate. For non-believers, you could lay the horse shoe flat, and sprinkle some salt over it. then move the coil near and watch the salt move on the surface.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Qiaozhi: What kind of coil did you use? Mine is 12'' and the eliptic coil is the same size as the horseshoe endings as you can see in the clip.

My coil is a 10.5" with the same elliptical center coil. However ... either I'm going deaf, or you've developed tinnitus, because I cannot hear any ringing in the video.

[WM6]

For non-believers, you could lay the horse shoe flat, and sprinkle some salt over it. then move the coil near and watch the salt move on the surface.

Fully agree. Solution can be "cum grano salis" or it is woodoo magic.

[Fred]

I really don´t understand what this is all about.
Putting a piece of iron in front of a coil is one of the most usual experiments seen in school books.This is called a solenoid

[WM6]

I really don´t understand what this is all about.
Putting a piece of iron in front of a coil is one of the most usual experiments seen in school books.This is called a solenoid

Seems you dont believe in "Unbelievable Discovery - "singing metal"!"?

[simonbaker]

I really don´t understand what this is all about.
Putting a piece of iron in front of a coil is one of the most usual experiments seen in school books.This is called a solenoid

Right, I'd be surprised if you couldn't elicit some response from metal in front of our monster TX coils amped up to the max.

But forget magnetism; the idea of sound is intriguing. Why not VLF ultrasound for the ground? They hunt for oil with shock waves; maybe we could image under the ground with ultrasound. Of course you'd see rocks and stuff, but maybe it would be an addition to the magnetic detection. Probably old hat, done before, yada...

Cheers!

-SB

[technos]

Sorry 4 l8 reply, I've been treasure-hunting and found a very old golden ring.

Well my friends, seems some perhaps unscientific orientated guys around here don't take this phenomenon for serious...

OK, last try - look at this video:
http://www.multiupload.com/WHQFJF6AWN

This download did not work for me - get error report.

It's entirely possible that this metal was making a sound, much the same way some power transformers and switching power supplies "sing." This horseshoe looks like it is heavily rusted, and I suspect that there are loose "layers" that are porous and can vibrate some air molecules.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. I hope that you can get a decent mike and repost a better limk of the sound.

[J_Player]

This download did not work for me - get error report.

It's entirely possible that this metal was making a sound, much the same way some power transformers and switching power supplies "sing." This horseshoe looks like it is heavily rusted, and I suspect that there are loose "layers" that are porous and can vibrate some air molecules.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. I hope that you can get a decent mike and repost a better limk of the sound.

this is what I think also. Maybe if the tip of the mic housing is held against the horse shoe in various locations we can hear a louder recording of the sound.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Funfinder]

http://www.multiupload.com/DN5SU83BW5
original and amplified record.


@technos
I hope already you can download from multiupload, otherwise use a proxy server or check your internet-connection. From multiupload you can download from 8 different locations - and I hope at least one of them will work for you...


> This horseshoe looks like it is heavily rusted, and I suspect that there are loose "layers" that are porous and can vibrate some air molecules.

I thought this already myself, because at cleaning time I removed already such "layers". If that's the solution, those layers must act like little membrans. But therefore the rust still must have electromagnetical attributes, so it can pulse within the EM field-frequency. Usually at least metal detectors don't signalise rust but of course are affected if metal-atoms penetrate the surrounding ground for a long time. Maybe just a question how strong oxidized the iron layers are.


@ J_Player
I did test it - salt doesn't work because of high-frequency, but in a silent room you can hear the sound from around 2meters and the horseshoe can have until 8cm/3'' distance from coil.

The recorded signal strenght now is pushed to the limit:
Mic in via Walkmen and Audio Out at full volume.
Then this audio out used as input into laptop mic-in!
The mic's plastic housing tiped directly onto the horseshoes surface.

Other important question:
Does exist a synthie-soft where you can input 4.8khz and listen to the created sound? If so we could compare the both audio-signals. Or if someone here can generate a 4.8khz soundsample with an other method, please upload it now.


@ WM6:
You also can put some flour on the ground of your cellar and watch out if some mice or ghosts leave their footprints there! They say in haunted houses this technique was used already with success...

As I told already, salt grains don't work because this noise is far away from bass-frequency!

btw. WM6 - I know it is hard for you believing me and may tease you , but yesterday I found a 200 years old, 7.5cm/3inch diameter cannon-ball a half meter down with my Jeohunter. Really too bad for you...
This has nothing to do that other detectors also could find it - shure they can... - but: I did found it!


@ Qiaozhi
This is no ringing and the sound at the video recording is very silent, it's a very high whistle.
The new recordings are louder, you should can hear it now.


@ simonbaker
> Why not VLF ultrasound for the ground?
This was a very good idea of you, but I can tell you the answer:
Because the most treasure-hunters couldn't afford it yet.
Such technique costs 10.000-20.000 Dollars or Euros.

Using high power ultrasound would need alot engery / heavy accu-packs and could penetrate the ground for shure. But it would show you even stones and roots and has no metal-distinction. So first you would need a usual MD and secondly an ultra-sound device attached to a small LCD-Display or Laptop for checking out what kind of visual reflections you can receive...

[mikebg]

Let's involve the NASA

Today is April 1st. Let us celebrate the international All 'Fools' Day.
I think, many participants of this forum will celebrate it more than a week.
They started the celebration with this fool thread 4 days ago, but it seems next 3 days are not enough for celebration.
Thats why the (R)EMI group decided to involve in celebration a very serious institution - the NASA. Yes, I speek for National Aeronautic an Space Administration because many years ago, its scientists discovered the most effective search coil . A small coil of NASA operates as a large conventional coil because is active. However NASA not used it for metal detection. Can we do this? Endeed! We can test it more easy than the "singing metal".
Please, follow my postings in the forum today and next several days and check in WEB if all written by me is true! And don't forget possibility to ask NASA if something is not clear.

[Funfinder]

http://www.graviflight.de/

Antigravitation - that really rules!
Shure, almost nobody believes in such "stuff" - and this is very good so...

btw. here are some pro's and gurus:

Can you simply explain me why a wave-wobble can "vibrate" into the vacuum alias universe if there is no ether or is this too much quantum-theory?


The secret of the "whistling metal" already is lifted, it's the resonancing layers of rust, caused by magnetical change of amplitude within the coils EM-Field.
btw. in the beginning I just have asked others what kind of effect this could be - I give a **** if someone believes it or not!

But it's really poor some can't believe it after all those additional files! Either the ears of them are too old (if so use software for analyzing the sound-files!) or they are much too conservative. The same like 200 years ago with cellphones...
add. info: If somebody is curious why you can't hear the metal-detector itself making a noise:
The Fisher 1266-X has an automatic pin point "gain control". So if you place a metal object very near the coil and press the pinpoint switch, it is automatically adusted to this very high level. If you put a large metal object 1cm near the coil and press pinpoint, it won't make a sound at 2cm distance, but still at 0,5cm.


@ mikebg:
I'm looking forward to your NASA-Coil - hopefully it will revolutionize the MD-Hitec Biz!

[Bill512]

Unfortunately this "Unbelievable Discovery" is simply the Magnetostriction effect.
It is far more easy to hear it ,by using the TX stage and a coil, from a pulse induction detector (much higher magnetic moment compared to a VLF).
I mean a ferromagnetic (or ferrimagnetic ) material in a alternating or pulsating magnetic field.
(using a pulse induction tx stage on a coil with loose turns and without any material near the coil, a faint sound is there but not from magnetostriction)

[J_Player]

@ mikebg:
I'm looking forward to your NASA-Coil - hopefully it will revolutionize the MD-Hitec Biz!

Actually there is an amazing NASA coil detector. Not the kind you're looking for. But one NASA engineer devised this wand detector to locate metal objects hidden in other materials. It works like a pinpointer, but what is amazing is it claims an improved range. Apparently the positioning of the ferrites is critical to get the improved range.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Actually there is an amazing NASA coil detector. Not the kind you're looking for. But one NASA engineer devised this wand detector to locate metal objects hidden in other materials. It works like a pinpointer, but what is amazing is it claims an improved range. Apparently the positioning of the ferrites is critical to get the improved range.

Best wishes,
J_P

Transistorized NASA version of Gold Gun.