The VERY VERY FIRST VLF machine.................

[Melbeta]

Ahhhhhhhh! It will print out to a very very LARGED SIZE SCHEMATIC SHEET too.......Take the file in to a computer store and print it out by them, on a really large sized SHEET of store paper.......
I think you will be really amazied on how large it can be printed out...........
MELBETA

[Melbeta]

Now Compass Engineers, Whites Engineers, and TEK's engineers, and Charles GARRETT, used to take their company machines, and test them against the other engineers machines. They talked to each other, with techinal
talk, and explained the secrets to each other. How do I know this??? They told me these facts.....along with these FACTORY ENGINEERS, was JACK ROACH!!!!!!!! I can speak about Jack, as I have
his SECRET material as well... HE was a TOP SECRET NASA ENGINEER, who knew these engineers you see!!!!!!!!!!!

I got Jack Roach's OWN METAL DETECTOR as well stored in my basement area....... You want to see my photo of JACK ROACH's OWN MACHINE??????????? He built his own special metal detector, after
examining the other engineer's machines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MELBETA

JACK L. ROACH

SAIC

Mr. Roach has 30 years of experience in the following areas: missile defense, space surveillance, missile warning, missile crew operations, space and missile intelligence collection, development and implementation of Emergency War Orders, battle staff, nuclear positive control and coded switch programs, space launch, spacecraft command and control, mission planning, operational concept development, project management, requirements definition, system integration, test methodology development, test planning, test conduct, system evaluation, configuration management, software development, program advocacy, budgeting and programming, and Office of Secretary of Defense (OSD) oversight of Space, Helicopter, and Ballistic Missile Defense programs. He was granted the Air War College Outstanding Graduate (Seminar) in 1993 and is a certified acquisition professional, level III

Mr. Roach received his MS in business from University of Northern Colorado in 1979 (Greeley, Colorado). He received a BS in biology from Arizona State University in 1975..

HYPERLINK "http://www.manta.com/c/mtv7828/roach"Roach

company-address
446 Walter Avenue, Newbury Park, CA 91320-4347
Website: Information not found (National Security…)
Phone: (805) 445-1938
Now I want you to note those dates he was a college student, during 1975 he had already invented the Roach Metal Detector. By the time he obtained his Masters Science degree, the Roach and Semtech metal detector was history! Why? All because of the Whites V Supreme Discriminator metal detector! And he ended up, disappearing into the US Dept of Defense, and was a LEVEL III person back in 1993. Smart? You bet he was and is still.....
Melbeta
I said I personally had Jack Roach's own machine. I am going to stick in a photo of the cased Roach metal detector. It is right below........

It is stored in his own BALSA WOOD case.........Cannot run it though, it takes a special battery which I
DO NOT HAVE!!!!!!!!!! It is from the year 1977............After that, he disappeared into U.S. Military somewhere and never surfaced again!!!!!!!!
But I saw it on eBay, and bought it from someone who never released his identity!!!!!!!! ROACH??? Perhaps, but not sure myself!!!

I have no identiy but paid eBay for the Jack Roach metal detector. At the time, SEMTECH had disappeared from history too. I do have the special test made
on this metal detector though.........But not going to post the special test of it........ I also have the ONLY brochure ever printed on this detector. SEE
it shown inside the cover???????
MELBETA

[Melbeta]

I said I was not going to post the TEST that was performed on Jack Roach's Metl Sensor detector. Appears that some want to read that TEST. I put the entire amount of pages into an PDF file, so first going
to try to see if I can insert that test into the forum. If so, it can be read and also printed out I believe as it was not secured years ago.
MELBETA
Well, it arrived in the upload, now lets see if it can enter the forum. If so, then it can be read and printed out if one want to print it out.
I saved it years ago, as a PDF file, and also set it as a version 5.0 PDF file. So here we go...
Semtech 1090-SI model vs5.0.pdf
Well, it entered the Carl Moreland forum, so should be able to be examined by others. Like I said, I bought it on eBay, but when it arrived, it had NO special battery, and
I was unable to find a battery to run and test the actual metal detector. The price? It was listed for $500, but said it would take the highest offer only. So wanting Jack
Roach's own machine, I bought it for $600 cash offer. It came, no battery, so I just stored it in the detector storage area of my basement, and it is there today. So anyone
who wants to have it, can offer me $600 and take it home. It will be plus shipping charges of course too...Whoops, just looked, and I bought it for $500, so I just changed the
Semtech price to $500, plus shipping costs. You can come to my home and pay me cash, and we will just stick it into your back seat of your car, you save the shipping costs!
MELBETA

[Melbeta]

I have one DOC file, that says that Semtech ONLY MADE ONE machine, and it was a presentation model, and was presented in a wooden case. So
Melbeta owns the ONLY ONE. Paul owned TWO of the earlier heavy models........ Read that early DOC file, it is below!
MELBETA
JACK ROACH information???????

Got out today for several hours using various TR and BFO detectors, Some are extremely rare and a few are prototype models the remainder are various types. Several are modified, and are from the eighties and early nineties not really vintage but considered outdated by most.

Garrett made an extremely small BFO, Have five of them and all work well. The Spartan-175, The Workhorse, couple of Tracer's and a Prototype. Also, In the same picture upper left are two extremely rare green lunch box type Compass Klondike 64-BFO & 41-BFO models. These are super rare, Believe only about 11-13 were made before Compass switched from BFO to TR. The two shown in the picture may be the only ones you'll ever see, Copy and save this picture you may never see another Compass Klondike BFO.... Many thanks to Allan Cannon and Phil for making this possible with Phil's help acquired these super rare Compass Klondike BFO's from his good friend Allan Cannon who worked with Compass.

...And this is supposed to be about Jack Roach???
Also, Two super rare Roach Detectors and trust me you may never ever ever ever (3 evers???) see another one so save this picture as well. One of these two rare Roach detectors will soon be going to another Vintage metal detector collector, I know these are so rare might as well share one with the other vintage collector who will appreciate them as much as I do...The Roach detector may have been the first detector to have target ID both visual and audio, If not the first second for sure. These are mid seventy models believe 1974-75, Square coil too with two smaller coils inside the larger square coil and both Roach detectors do operate like they should. (now THESE ROACH machines, are the earlier models, not the SEMTECH very very very very very (5 vers?????) RARE machines...)

Tossed in one older Fisher Explorer II TR model, This was the Fisher cream of the crop of their TR back then the new coil design was more forgiven much smoother stability. But, Lost some sensitivity to tiniest finds not much though and it also lost some TR iron masking abilities.

Another great TR back then was a Compass Cue TR-1000 Automatic, Boy does it hum don't let the cheap blue plastic fool you this hotrod screams like it's big brother Compass Automatics. Only draw back is the Blue plastic design is not as strong as the Green lunch Box design Compass is famous for as the blue plastic design has some flex on the handle not much but it's there....And of course the modified Compass 94B Automatic circuit board crunched inside a Compass Hustler housing, Packed with lot's of TR power inside a tiny control box. (Melbeta has one of the Compass RARE VLF CUE models....).

Another screamer and it does scream it lungs out that be the Whites Ghost Towner TR, Another one of the many models I picked up from Allan Cannon. To be honest, I feel this Whites Ghost Towner TR may out perform the Compass 77B this screamer punches down deep. (NO it does not out perfom the Compass 77B nor the Compass 76B versions, as MELBETA has several(s) of them). How does one know what several(s) is as far as quantity??? Only MELBETA knows......And HE ain’t talking!

The Modified detectors well these are a handful from my favorites, All of them have an edge over the others one way or another. The modified CZ-3D has one of the rare CZ-DD coils, Believe only four or five were made this one being DD coil No. 2, Guess that would made this particular CZ-3D a rare model especially with the modification having the meter assembly on the handgrip with the control board underneath the arm-rest....The GoldTrax is cool, This model was way ahead of it's time when George Payne introduced different modules for the Baron series and the modification helps it swing like a feather....Couple of Compass models, AU2000 and GoldScanner Pro both modified. By the way, Dug my first gold coin with the Compass GoldScanner Pro before we had the T2 or MXT or GoldTrax the Compass GoldScanner Pro was the way to go and still to this day can hold it's own with most terrain.....

And last, Another George Payne model the Teknetics S/T. Deep demon for sure with the larger coil but now it's tamed down a bit with the Fisher DD coil, Great for gold jewelry using the tones feature and super quick recovery speed.

Maybe next month, Will gather up another few armfuls of different vintage detectors and hit the local sites again and share those as well. Paul

I had heard that Compass had originally (1969? 1970?) dabbled in BFO. But I never knew it was with THAT few productions made. I never knew anything about that period of their original startup. The only thing that ever appeared in their earliest appearances in the metal detecting mag. advertisements, was their all-metal TRs. Eg. 77b, 94b, etc.... I don't recall ever seeing an ad for a BFO from them. And I didn't know that they actually looked like their later TR's would come to look. Great story. And yes: you have rare beasts. I've never seen or heard of one in existence. And now, if your #'s are correct (on #'s produced) , then you have some rare detectors indeed ! If the hobby of vintage detector collecting would EVER take off, you'd be rich Afterall, those with the original Apple computers can now sell them for a mint to computer collectors, so why oh why can't we vintage md'r collectors command top dollar for ours? haha

As for the ghost-towner TR, I would be skeptical that it was competitive with the Compass 77b. If it's anything like the 66TR anyhow. Because the 66TR wasn't as desirable as the 77b. For some reason the 77b (and 94b auto, etc...) were just smoother, deeper, better sounding, etc.... Tom in CA

Compass did put out a great product, It wasn't until later when I started using them and even then switched over to Whites in the mid eighties. Then, back and forth Compass, Fisher, Whites a few others then it exalted from there never ending madness of trying different types.

You did well I should say extremely well not getting caught up with buying the next generation machine, Instead you hung onto the two Nautilus and Whites 5900, By the way those are great machines still have a couple of Nautilus myself and just acquired a 5900 should have it next weekend. It wasn't until later realized the 5900 was better suited for my hunting needs over the 6000, Took me years to figure that one out so I recently purchased another 5900 for a great deal. Gave my last 5900 to a local friend. The person who sold me the 5900 recently modified the unit onto a neat tee handle, Well balanced and looks pretty neat, Couldn't pass it up he gave me a super deal looking forward to using it. Paul

Tom,
Yeah, Compass first started with the BFO and from what Allan Cannon told me these two he acquired from Compass are extremely rare with only a few made. They were in new condition when I first got them from Allan, Still in the original boxes with owners manual and the upper end BFO model came with the extra larger coil.

Allan Cannon also worked with Garrett, Acquired many Garrett BFO models from Allan one of the models was a proto-type. Even acquired many BFO/TR coils from Allan one particular BFO coil was pained red and used in a treasure magazine, A couple of BFO coils are experimental coils from Garrett so those are rare too and these only operate with the proto-type BFO.

The Ghost Towner TR Allan tossed in the box was not working, But it was complete and really liked the long handle setup it sports and is so well balanced. So I ripped out the old TR guts from the Ghost Towner control box and installed a newer Whites TR version more advanced than the 66TR which is my reasoning it appears to be better than Compass 77B, Should have mentioned this above the Whites Ghost Towner TR is modified with a beefier faster deeper Whites TR.....What I will do in the near future, Take both out the Whites Ghost Towner TR and Compass 77B for a test compassion. Have a strong feeling the Ghost Towner will edge ahead, If not it'll be close between the two. Paul

With the older large lunch box type control boxes with the handle curved over, When first starting out using them they appear to be well balanced, And they actually feel great but after a while they can wear down a users arm and wrist. Trust me every time I take them out for a hunt feels great no wrist/arm stress but after a while boy my arm and wrist are ready to fall off, Starts off great but this curved handle setup will eventually wear down the user Later versions had an arm rest mounted to the end of the curved handle, Took the stress away from the arm and did help a little but with the wrist curved so much that is were most of the stress did the user in. Paul

Roach Detectors.........
Back then I remember talking to Ed Moody my Compass distributor-he'd never seen one, and thought I was talking about a 2-box. You remember the Louisiana company that made the BFO that worked in the VLF range? Vlad

Hello Vlad,
Don't remember the Louisiana company that made the BFO that worked in the VLF range, Allot of things I don't remember or never learned. Sounds interesting though, BFO to work in the VLF range sounds really interesting sounds like a neat setup.

With the Roach detector, If not the first but for sure second detector with target ID. I'll ID with a small analog meter and once set, the user determines were nickels, pennies, dimes and quarters fall truly an amazing detector back then. From what I was told by a silent partner that helped Mr Roach launch the business, Only about 300 were made that is how I acquired the first Roach detector. The second one I have will be going to Carl once I get a proper box to ship the odd shaped detector. HH, Paul

Is it a hi freq TR? Vlad
Can't remember but I'll look up the information, a nice article was written on the Roach detector with spec's, pics and such believe in 1974 or early 75 in a treasure magazine. Will dig out the magazine, post pics of the meter and how one can cherry pick out particular targets, hopefully in a few days got some free time off the next few days. Paul

Howdy Paul, I am BACK from my trip in OZ and just seen some old friends that you have and sure glad that they are in a good home and applicate your collection. If I can help you any way I will try to answer any question you or any others may have. Keep up the collection as you have some really rare jewels...best in Hunting Allan Cannon

Hello Allan, Good to see you're back from your trip, I hope with your trip to oz some yellow surfaced that be the place to go to find gold. And I'll aways cherish the lot of detectors I picked up from you, think I have about 15 of your old friends mostly BFO models and two TR's.

Their is one question on a coil, its a thick Large weird Garrett coil heavy as an anchor appears to be VLF. I'll have to dig it out and share a photo, I'm curious to find out what it belonged to so I can get the proper vintage Garrett to work with it. I'll post a picture of the coil in a day or so.

Still use many of your vintage detectors, my two favorites are the rare Compass BFO models those are so rare and only a few were made. Thanks Allan for allowing many of your vintage detectors into my collection, they are in good hands and will continue to be used out in the field. Paul

Paul, That boat anchor of a Garrett loop might of been a 12x24 co-axil loop for the 2 KHZ master hunters. Is it about 2 1/2 inches tall very similar like the 12x24 BFO loop only thicker and weights about few pounds heavier. If so then that's there first loop they made other from the 8 inch coaxial in 2 KHZ. They soon changed the frequency and went to the 5 KHZ range and then produced the 7 1/2, 10 1/2 & 14 inch concentric loops.. Did well in OZ and found some nice Yellow. AC

Thank you Allan and you're dead on that was the coil I was referring too, You have a great memory super retention down to the detail. Just dug this out a few minutes ago, Along with two of the many BFO models of yours you let me add to my collection.

I remember you mentioning the red coil for a special reason, Believe it was used in a sales add or magazine. Also, I've been meaning to ask about the blue camouflaged paint BFO model it has no model name. Was thinking maybe it was a prototype or a special model, And the red coil marked underneath with the number 288 works with this particular BFO. Other BFO coils have 455 on them and maybe one or two other have another number maybe not but for sure I do remember seeing 288 and 455.

Another neat BFO is the Tracer, You know it still works and since acquiring this Tracer from you it sparked my interest with this neat pocket size detector so I picked up four more very similar to yours but each a little different (coil size or other differences).

Every once in a while, Get tired of todays top end detectors and gather up several BFO and TR's many of them yours then hit the school yards and tot lots. Make it an all day event, Break for lunch somewhere between the hunt and hit the grass again.

Appreciate the information on the Larger coil Allan, Now the quest is on will try and locate a detector to work with this large coil. And Congrats with scoring yellow on your recent trip to oz, I've yet to find a gold nugget with a metal detector, Maybe next year have a friend who owns allot of land in gold country rich with relics. Problem is I always get locked to staying in the relic areas what I need is to venture into the tailings areas or up the dry creek areas were water has flowed down for centuries.

Thanks again Allan, If there's anything I can do or if you every need a piece of equipment please don't hesitate to ask. Paul

Paul, How is everything for you? I just came across a fisher T320 explorer in a wooden box with manuals and 2 loops & Headphones. It has been in shed for many years and don't know if it works but hope to find out if they will sell it. I see it uses the everyready 226 9 volt (2) and any batteries around? I know the Chinese was making obsolete few years ago or do I have to make a jumper? This thing looks brand new but the foam inside the box has deteriorated and made a mess. I know its a neat early 70's unit and seen some of you info on being the Cadillac dubbed by fisher. Any how hope all is well and thinking of selling my GPZ7000 so if you know anyone looking for a ZED, I will make a great deal for them. Allan C.

Allan,
All is well, Staying busy can't seen to get out for a serious hunt due to work and recently when my days off arrived it rained allot. But, Did manage to play a few rounds of golf. Started golfing again after a 18 year break, Hit a hole in one last month a first for me.

The Fisher T320 (Explorer II) you came across, Those are a rare find not too many of those surface. Have only seen about 4-5 surface on the internet, Have three in my collection and yes they do need two 9-volt batteries to power them. Had to modify mine to operate off regular 9-volt batteries, But they work and appear to last a long time with standard 9-volt batteries after the conversion. From the ligature, The transistorized circuitry TR type (balanced mutual induction bridge) operates on 87 kHz. And they actually operate very well and more forgiven much smoother stability. But, Lost some sensitivity to tiniest finds not much though and it also lost some TR iron masking abilities.

However, Guess for the average user back then this model would be more user friendly but even though it sports a wooden handle it's extremely off balanced. Fisher did a great job with this cool setup with the course and fine tune knob within fingers reach but missed the boat not adding an arm rest like they did with the earlier 1967 FisherScope M70. They hit a home run with the 1967 FisherScope M70 believe that may have been the first metal detector with an arm rest, Will enclose a picture of one of my T320 models. It too has two coils, I prefer the smaller coil and that's because it greatly helps my arm not wear out for an extended hunt. If you do pickup the T320, The battery conversion is simple if you need help please feel free to contact me.

What it really needs is some type of arm rest attached to the rear control box, Otherwise a fun detector to use but not as crisp and fast as an old Compass TR especially in an iron ridden site. This new Fisher TR model lost some masking abilities and that's because of the new advanced transistorized circuitry, And brace yourself it's an arm destroyer .

Boy, I was looking at the new Minelab GPZ nugget PI earlier this year but sprung for a GPX 5000 instead, That was because of the iron discrimination I need for relic hunting. But if I come across someone needing one will pass them to you yours is still in like new condition, I would like to get into nugget hunting but think it's too late, I hear allot of positive information with the GPZ understand some users are going back to old pounded sites getting nuggets the GPX Pi's missed. Paul

Vlad.....that Louisiana company that you refer to is Treasuretronics and they made the SST Pro Selectmatic. I believe that this was the very first detector to come out with the discrimination circuit! I was not aware that this BFO worked in the VLF range....but that really answers some questions that I have! I started with a Garrett Sidewinder BFO ans and still dabble with a Garrett Hunter BFO and a few other brands. Now saying that on most of these the depth range max is about 4 to 5 inches for coin type targets. This detector will get that same coin at about 10 inches! The SST Pro now is very RARE and very seldom come up for sale! Mine has a problem with the meter (for discrimination) but the audio sounds off loud and clear! Contacted a few owners and most have problems and do not work at all. Anyway when you mentioned the Louisiana company I knew that it was Treasuretronics. Joe (Tx)

Paul . Those garrett BFO loops is 455KHZ , this is when Garrett made about 12 units in this frequency.
D-Tex bfo's was using that frequency and Garrett was at 288 KHZ. I remember Roy Legal was testing them and they found it don't quite have the same depth as a 288khz in mineralized ground.
455 kHz was a lot more sensitive to silver foil and gold but it did not justify Garrett to change. Garrett 288 was the best frequency of the lot. Those few 455 where converted back to 288khz and you may have the last remaining one out of the 12 still at 455KHZ. When I purchased this 455 , I went to my credit union just to buy it when I was working at Garrett. The detector you are asking about in Louisiana was called the simplex. Not sure if they ever made any, but they advised it back in the early 80's and never ever seen one.
Hang on to that 455 as you have the 3X8 and single 12" and I am sure you never find another one out there, kind like a Klondikes.!!!! AC

Thsnks Allan for the 455 kHz information, I didn't know Garrett only made the 12 models having 455 kHz, incredible so my 455 model may be the only one left. Plus, I bet going to the credit union to borrow money Well, I am MELBETA you see...... to pay for the old BFO was a serious expense back then, the risk you guys took but it all paid off with all the silver to be found. The Compass Klondikes are so rare, now knowing the Garrett 455khz BFO is rare too is terrific. Thanks so much to allowing these rare detectors into my collection, and amazingly they still work! Paul

So who has any of the SEMTECH “Roach metal detectors”???? Can you say MELBETA??? HE has the ONLY ONE of them. It was THE ONE, that SEMTECH made for JACK ROACH personally. So who are you who knows this knowledge??? OH, MELBETA also used the SST Treasure Pro BFO, back in his early days, then when he got those Compass 77B and Compass 76B models, he got rid of that SST Treasure Pro. Who knows that? MELBETA knows I guess???

Yes he does know... Well, I am MELBETA you see......
MELBETA

[Melbeta]

Okay, I found the material, I had stored, regarding the Compass detector, that was during the time Jack Roach used his own designed metal detectors, to run them with the Compass, the Whites, the Garrett, and I know there
were more other brands then that he tested his with theirs.

Now I was a PRINTER's Devil, back in 1954, and I made a booklet back in 1976, that was 4 page booklet. I just found that material, and the cover sheet. Will stick it below if I can figure out how to do it.......
MELBETA
First the cover, for the early Compass "Klondike" detector.... Then will be page 1, then 2, then 3, then 4, the last page.....








Okay, not only stuck them into this forum of Carl's, but I enhanced them for extreme clarity..
MELBETA

[Melbeta]

When I posted an old sheet, showing various PEOPLE's names, some of them, and not sure which ones today, are deceased now... I am lucky I myself am still alive. I will go back into time,
and I was 9 years old. I spoke to my grandpa, the father of my mother, and I asked him how to pray. He taught me to pray, and I will stop there, as this forum does not want any thing
like I experienced to be posted. I live today on my own estate. The taxes on it keep on going up and up and up. I am lucky I can use my credit card and pay the taxes. I only use one
credit card, not going into that either. My credit card is cleared on the 12th of each month from my checking account.

The doggone spammers from China, chase me on my house phone each month, trying to gather information to steal money from myself. So I got the house phone set on ClearChoice phone, and I do not answer the phone calls, as I can see their phone number is not listed on the screen of the free ClearChoice phone. So I do not answer the phone. If their is no phone number listed, I no answer anything you see. I will use a lighter word now, "The buggers do not stop phoning and phoning and phoning me each month", even when I do not answer the phone which shows the phone caller is using an phone whitch the phone number does not show up on the screen. So I call them as what they are, "SCAMMERS", and they operate from outside the USA!!!! I will see who lasts longer, them or myself!

So far they just do not stop phoning and phoning my house phone....... If anyone has the same problem, and has found the solution, let me know so I can stop them from bothering myself!!!
MELBETA