Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

AMX Schematics & Layout

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    I am in stage of re-drawing your schematic in different software. So I want perfectly accurate schematic according to which I will draw my pcb.
    And I want to pick best option. In your schematic you put all together, all the options. And it is confusing.
    Why would I want to remove IC2? What are the pros&contras of that.
    Is the coil same at both options? Single coil or coil with center tap?
    At Tinkerer's schematic R1-4 are with values and at your schematic with zero values. If zero values then why those exist on schematic? Placeholders?
    Also at Tinkerer's schematic there is significantly higher amplification than on your schematic; I guess it is due loss because of the R1-4 resitors.
    We will agree that R1-4 will introduce more noise in signal path, so imho is better to omit them and use lower gain at opamps, as you did.
    But than I should omit even the placeholders or not?
    Can you (if not asking much) separate both options in two separate schematics and explain in short both options, pros and cons for each one.
    This way is little bit confusing. I don't want both option on my pcb, I want clear one option and to avoid placeholders for componentes I will probably not use in option i picked.
    I am sorry if I ask too much. But two separate option as schematic of RX will reduce any further confusion.
    Things will evolve, hopefully more people will join, same questions will be asked all over again when topic grows to several tens of pages and more.
    If you not sure about the component if you gonna use it or not; than it is better not to be present on pcb.
    This reminds me on your first HH attempt, you put "dozen" options on one sch draw and one pcb draw. It was so confusing then. And my first two attempts to make it; failed so bad.
    You must understant that I don't hide back in your head and I can not see your thoughts. Many of us do not.
    Split your work on two separated and perfectly clear options and everything will be clearer and better to understand.
    Your character seems to be like that; lazy on words, not only do you adore incomprehensible abbreviations in writing; you also like to put everything on one schematic and one pcb.
    Like a pot with stew. Everything inside, so you guys pick what you want from it!
    Imagine me, after a lot of effort to make it, after "100" new pages on the topic, a lot of effort (and money) in the end
    it doesn't work for me, because I discover that I mixed up the options.
    There are also people like me, who are stupid, not all of us are super smart to read other people's thoughts and immediately understand
    everything "what the writer wanted to say"...​
    ​I sincerely apologize for these remarks, but it is better to say them now than much later.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by ivconic View Post
      I am in stage of re-drawing your schematic in different software. So I want perfectly accurate schematic according to which I will draw my pcb.
      And I want to pick best option. In your schematic you put all together, all the options. And it is confusing.
      Why would I want to remove IC2? What are the pros&contras of that.
      Is the coil same at both options? Single coil or coil with center tap?
      At Tinkerer's schematic R1-4 are with values and at your schematic with zero values. If zero values then why those exist on schematic? Placeholders?
      Also at Tinkerer's schematic there is significantly higher amplification than on your schematic; I guess it is due loss because of the R1-4 resitors.
      We will agree that R1-4 will introduce more noise in signal path, so imho is better to omit them and use lower gain at opamps, as you did.
      But than I should omit even the placeholders or not?
      Can you (if not asking much) separate both options in two separate schematics and explain in short both options, pros and cons for each one.
      This way is little bit confusing. I don't want both option on my pcb, I want clear one option and to avoid placeholders for componentes I will probably not use in option i picked.
      I am sorry if I ask too much. But two separate option as schematic of RX will reduce any further confusion.
      Things will evolve, hopefully more people will join, same questions will be asked all over again when topic grows to several tens of pages and more.
      If you not sure about the component if you gonna use it or not; than it is better not to be present on pcb.
      This reminds me on your first HH attempt, you put "dozen" options on one sch draw and one pcb draw. It was so confusing then. And my first two attempts to make it; failed so bad.
      You must understant that I don't hide back in your head and I can not see your thoughts. Many of us do not.
      Split your work on two separated and perfectly clear options and everything will be clearer and better to understand.
      Your character seems to be like that; lazy on words, not only do you adore incomprehensible abbreviations in writing; you also like to put everything on one schematic and one pcb.
      Like a pot with stew. Everything inside, so you guys pick what you want from it!
      Imagine me, after a lot of effort to make it, after "100" new pages on the topic, a lot of effort (and money) in the end
      it doesn't work for me, because I discover that I mixed up the options.
      There are also people like me, who are stupid, not all of us are super smart to read other people's thoughts and immediately understand
      everything "what the writer wanted to say"...​
      ​I sincerely apologize for these remarks, but it is better to say them now than much later.

      Hi Ivconic, respectfully I think that Carl has done an amazing job with the experimental platform. There are a lot of optional parts and footprints on this first development version to aid experimentation and so allow convergence on an optimal solution. Research first - Then development..

      I for one can’t wait to get started playing with the board.

      Kind regards,
      Olly

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Olly View Post
        ... respectfully I think that Carl has done an amazing job with the experimental platform...
        I totally agree!

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by KingJL View Post
          I have re-created the AMX V1.1 in Kicad V7.0 (NO EASY TASK), if anyone is interested.
          New version!!

          Changes:
          Changed attributes of small filled zones on top copper layer from "Thermal Reliefs" to "Thermal Reliefs for PTH". I usually leave all filled areas to "Thermal Reliefs" to prevent "tombstoning" (which I have encountered... but usually because the filled areas were larger). I decided to keep this board as identical to Carl's gerbers as possible.

          Removed the trace that bounded the GND fence filled area at bottom left of top copper layer. This was an artifact caused when exporting the original gerber to the PCB that I missed in my cleanup.

          Added the the attribute of 1 mm board edge clearance for copper layers to match the original gerbers.

          Added 1 mm fiducials to each corner (front and back) to aid those who have/use "pick-n-place" equipment (Brian, this is for you!).



          I will be removing the link to the previous version.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by ivconic View Post
            Can you (if not asking much) separate both options in two separate schematics and explain in short both options, pros and cons for each one.

            Here is the voltage mode preamp, based on Tony's original schematic:

            Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	481
Size:	33.7 KB
ID:	411831
            You set the gain with resistors and it has more stable gain vs coil resistance.

            Here is the same schematic but in current mode:

            Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	435
Size:	31.4 KB
ID:	411832
            The only difference is the input resistors = 0 and coil resistance determines gain. Will have lower thermal noise.
            Here is the single-ended version operating in voltage mode:

            Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	433
Size:	29.4 KB
ID:	411833
            This should have slightly lower noise than the differential voltage mode above. Replace the input resistors with 0 ohms to make it a single-ended current mode preamp with even lower noise.

            Comment


            • #66
              Olly and KingJL there is no need for you to "defend" Carl from me, because I consider him a very good friend and hence my freedom when I address him.
              And believe me, I am addressing these and similar questions and "inquiries" to Carl only and only for educational reasons.
              And I'm a "slow learner" and often have need for further explainations.
              I could have contacted him via email and I'm 101% sure I would have gotten the same answers.
              But I deliberately do it on the forum, publicly, to leave a trace, for the next generations of enthusiasts and those who want to learn something.
              I think that Carl understands my behavior very well and that I don't need to make any special excuses.
              And of course; my main motive is to learn something new but also something old that I didn't fully understand.
              ..
              Thanks Carl, clear and understandable as always!
              So now I get it. All three options are equally good, it seems to me.
              Choice will be conditioned with opamp&coil specs, in short.
              And now I am tempted to draw pcb with all the option included!!!


              And to switch between the options with jumpers.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by ivconic View Post
                [FONT=Comic Sans MS]... and KingJL there is no need for you to "defend" Carl from me...​
                I am/was not defending Carl... He is a big boy. I was really just expressing my appreciation of his effort.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by KingJL View Post
                  I am/was not defending Carl... He is a big boy. I was really just expressing my appreciation of his effort.
                  I absolutely agree!
                  Also my full respect goes to Tony Tinkerer, Paul Moodz, Willy Bayot, you KingJL, Olly and other participants who are present here and trying to contribute this very interesting project!
                  From someone who wasn't the least bit interested in PI detectors; you have turned me into an "over-interested d(m)onkey" who is dying to see it live and get it working properly!
                  Because the initial criteria are very ambitious and because I have not seen such a machine yet.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Thanks for the kind words.
                    I never mind answering questions and, yes, I prefer to do so on the forums rather than pm/email.
                    Ivica, now you see that the options are very similar and can easily be accomplished by kludging in resistors as needed. Kludging is easier to do in a thru-hole board so for SMT I prefer to explicitly include the extra components.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Yes, I will draw all the components and then if component like resistor is not needed; simple wire jumper will be put.
                      Or omit and left with unused pin holes. As the schematic dictates.
                      Good and at the same time bad thing is that LME is dual opamp, so I can't try there any single one, once I draw the connections for dual type.
                      That's bad, and good aspect of that is because I can use one LME for both input opamps and by that simplify the wirings and supply.
                      Same apllies for other two opamps.
                      Of course; through-hole pcb will not be in the same "league" with SMD 4 layer board, but hopefully will be good enough to test the concept and exercise the code side for dev board.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I made a small PCB that holds 2 single 8-pin opamps and plugs into a dual opamp footprint, specifically to substitute a dual with 2 singles.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Carl-NC View Post
                          Here is V1.1. Changes are:

                          ADC footprint corrected
                          Polarity of C51 corrected
                          Added R56 (0Ω) to the output of IC7b for DAC option

                          Thanks to everyone for the feedback!

                          [ATTACH]n411747[/ATTACH]
                          [ATTACH]n411746[/ATTACH]
                          Carl,
                          I once worked with a very successful project manager who would say "In every project, there comes a time that we need to shoot the engineers and produce a product!"
                          That being said, I have been playing around with the addition of a noise cancelling loop to the first stage of the differential FE. I believe there are significant improvements overall noise performance of the FE with these loop(s). Also there is significant improvement of the suppression of the power mains interference (50, 60, & 400 Hz) area.

                          Providing screen shots of both noise loop and non-noise loop circuits for comparison:
                          AMX FE non-noise cancel circuit and simulation outputs (same as published in AMX V1.1):
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	Diff non-noise-cancel.png
Views:	561
Size:	40.1 KB
ID:	411935
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	Diff non-noise-cancel noise.png
Views:	515
Size:	25.8 KB
ID:	411936
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	Diff non-noise-cancel AC analysis.png
Views:	515
Size:	29.7 KB
ID:	411940
                          AMX FE with noise cancel circuit and simulation outputs:
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	Diff with noise-cancel.png
Views:	513
Size:	47.1 KB
ID:	411938
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	Diff with noise-cancel noise.png
Views:	515
Size:	26.0 KB
ID:	411937
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	Diff with noise-cancel AC analysis.png
Views:	519
Size:	34.2 KB
ID:	411939

                          If interested, I can provide sim(s).

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            This is certainly interesting and worth looking at down the road, but my first priority is to get the fundamentals working. For that I'd rather not introduce any extra elements that might affect the target responses or the tilt. Also, my PCBs are on the way.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Carl-NC View Post
                              This is certainly interesting and worth looking at down the road, but my first priority is to get the fundamentals working. For that I'd rather not introduce any extra elements that might affect the target responses or the tilt. Also, my PCBs are on the way.
                              I understand completely!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                AMXHave you started working yet? I'm looking forward to it

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X