The Moodz detector lives !

[Carl-NC]

This is an off-the-cuff generalization, but about 95% of detector ideas fizzle out. Main reasons are: it didn't work as expected on the bench; it looked good on the bench but sucked in Real Ground conditions; bit off more than I could chew.

Of those that don't fizzle, folks can share their results, or not. I wouldn't begrudge anyone for wanting to take a successful design and try to make money off it, although that rarely works out they way you'd wish.

[crane]

I think eddy currents begin to flow in the target at pulse switch off, or when the magnetic field begins to collapse, as shown in these pics.

[Taktyk]

Can you give source book?

[Nupi]

I see the discussion deviated somewhat, although the deviation from the topic is interesting ..., the question regarding the main topic still remains; and that is: is the the promised detector project or kit going to be published or offered for purchase or is it just like I called it a demonstration of technology?

I mean there is on one side Carl, Tec, Orbit and a few more that published either a commercial detector project or their own project ..and on the other side are few more that partially published a project either to please their own ego and show others how good they are or just to advertise it in order to sell it.

Generally speaking: if you going to post an unfinished detector project just make it clear: is it for sale, is it just to show people how good you are as an electronic engineer, or if is work in progress then answer other members questions on the progress of the project.

I see a lot of people retaining from giving too much information on more advanced designs ...for sure there are a lot of persons that could publicly develop/ publish a top notch detector project.. but of course here is where ego and greed comes in.... and that's why we only build 20 years old designs and detectors cost up to 10.000 us dollars.. because of not sharing

You complain about sharing of advanced projects?
I think in general you're right.

But look closely at my avatar.
If you have a "too good idea", thats have consequences, you will be punished ruthlessly.
You're then for many, a crook, fantasist, a liar and so forth.

With such reactions you are "forced" to do something different with your invention or idea.
In my case trying to commercialize.
The biggest problem you then encounter is, in order to make the first HYBRID metal detector, financial.

[moodz]

You complain about sharing of advanced projects?
I think in general you're right.

But look closely at my avatar.
If you have a "too good idea", thats have consequences, you will be punished ruthlessly.
You're then for many, a crook, fantasist, a liar and so forth.

With such reactions you are "forced" to do something different with your invention or idea.
In my case trying to commercialize.
The biggest problem you then encounter is, in order to make the first HYBRID metal detector, financial.

This is true ... my project has been finished for over 6 months now ... however it is a surface mount design and most on this forum seem to have trouble even building a surfpi from silver dogs. Then I will get the question over and over "what is the battery consumption" and what is the detection range and what is the response to hot rocks ... and when people cant build it they want support and you are accused of publishing a difficult design.
So I am practically forced to stick it on the shelf or try to commercialise it. In the mean time I am starting to lay out a fat finger through hole board however the required larger components are not as available .... it time some realised that surface mount is the hobbyist standard now .. like it or leave it.

[soverey]

This is true ... my project has been finished for over 6 months now ... however it is a surface mount design and most on this forum seem to have trouble even building a surfpi from silver dogs. Then I will get the question over and over "what is the battery consumption" and what is the detection range and what is the response to hot rocks ... and when people cant build it they want support and you are accused of publishing a difficult design.
So I am practically forced to stick it on the shelf or try to commercialise it. In the mean time I am starting to lay out a fat finger through hole board however the required larger components are not as available .... it time some realised that surface mount is the hobbyist standard now .. like it or leave it.

Thank you for the reply Moodz. You a right when you say people have trouble building simple designs like a surf pi, I had trouble myself with the kit ,as it was my first pi detector. But I had the perseverance not to give up , and finally managed to make it work quite well. Sometimes when you are not an electronic engineer building a metal detector kit involves a lot of learning, for example a did not knew too much about metal detectosr, so I bought the book written by Carl and George, read it, bought a PC oscilloscope and started to build surf pi kit.

You are also right that people will ask for support,; But here is where the forum comes in, is you publish you detector project , first members with more experience in building metal detectors will manage to do it, and then less experienced members will have a go , they in turn will receive (as seen with other projects) support also from the members that already build it and so on. You wont be the only one answering and giving support.

I never done surface mount soldering, but I would give it a go if the rewards of finishing the project where pleasing; and I think many others would do so.
You are not forced to stick it on a shelf, I think there are enough forum members capable to build a few units in order to give helpful feedback so it could easier for less experience people to do the build.

In the end it is you choice, you know better how it performs , if you are pleased with the design or if you think that it performs well on the bench but not well enough in the field.

[Qiaozhi]

This is true ... my project has been finished for over 6 months now ... however it is a surface mount design and most on this forum seem to have trouble even building a surfpi from silver dogs. Then I will get the question over and over "what is the battery consumption" and what is the detection range and what is the response to hot rocks ... and when people cant build it they want support and you are accused of publishing a difficult design.
So I am practically forced to stick it on the shelf or try to commercialise it. In the mean time I am starting to lay out a fat finger through hole board however the required larger components are not as available .... it time some realised that surface mount is the hobbyist standard now .. like it or leave it.

You are very correct in your conclusions. The Surf-PI (and the Baracuda) are both simple designs, but endless people with (little or no experience in either electronics or metal detector design, and minimal test equipment) attempt to build these kits. Then comes the inevitable question ... "I've built the Surf-PI, but when I switch it on there is no audio. What's wrong?"

But ... as soverey said: "... when you are not an electronic engineer building a metal detector kit involves a lot of learning."
So there is absolutely nothing wrong with "learning", and in fact it is to be encouraged; as long as the person doing the learning chooses a project that is not beyond their capabilities. The only way to circumvent the silly mistakes, and to help the constructor end up with a detector that actually works, is to provide a Build Document, like the one supplied with the MiniPulse Plus. Even so, some people seem unable to follow instructions. In particular, the part where it says:

"If you go through the following steps carefully, and in order, you will have a greater chance of ending up with a detector that actually works. Please do not proceed to the next step until you have solved any problems encountered in the current step. If you get stuck at any stage during the build, then seek help in the Geotech forums before moving on. Do not simply populate the whole board; discover it doesn't work (which will be the most likely result) and then post in the forums: “I've built the Minipulse Plus, and it's not working. What's wrong?” …. as you will receive little sympathy from other Geotech members."

In the end, the Build Document has been a great success. It took some time to put together, but the lack of construction problems and subsequent silly questions is very rewarding. However, your own design is not something for a beginner, and a Build Document would take a lot of work to create, so I can understand your reluctance.

[greylourie]

I know this discussion is about the "MOODZ" detector. I read the many valid points, suggestions and experiences above. But how tiring can it be to have an idea or concept and present it in a forum, only to have countless people contribute their 2 cents ? What Moodz has done is go off and work on his own project. I think it must have been a very hard and demanding task. Now imagine the process being done in the open with all the useful or inane (or trolling) contributions that would be part of the picture. People project or try to inject their desires into the outcome. I always thought, with I.P included, that this would be your own (closed source) private commercial enterprise. Offering a kit may be an option, but mark Qiaozhi's words carefully. You have to judge what level of demand for kits and what level of support will be required by the customers, all with varying ability and expectations.

What I have seen on this forum is a need for an open controller project. There was the (open) pic-usb from Carl. And the (open) controller board from Bugwhiskers. But the one project that really had great response and was brilliant was the (closed ?) Moodz UNPI. Pity it faded away. There are so many available options for a controller mcu now days..

Oh, as for the SMD thing. Manufacturer trend is to move away from product with bits of wire on the end. But many of those parts are in current production in SMD form. So it would be wise for constructors to get used to them.

[moodz]

I know this discussion is about the "MOODZ" detector. I read the many valid points, suggestions and experiences above. But how tiring can it be to have an idea or concept and present it in a forum, only to have countless people contribute their 2 cents ? What Moodz has done is go off and work on his own project. I think it must have been a very hard and demanding task. Now imagine the process being done in the open with all the useful or inane (or trolling) contributions that would be part of the picture. People project or try to inject their desires into the outcome. I always thought, with I.P included, that this would be your own (closed source) private commercial enterprise. Offering a kit may be an option, but mark Qiaozhi's words carefully. You have to judge what level of demand for kits and what level of support will be required by the customers, all with varying ability and expectations.

What I have seen on this forum is a need for an open controller project. There was the (open) pic-usb from Carl. And the (open) controller board from Bugwhiskers. But the one project that really had great response and was brilliant was the (closed ?) Moodz UNPI. Pity it faded away. There are so many available options for a controller mcu now days..

Oh, as for the SMD thing. Manufacturer trend is to move away from product with bits of wire on the end. But many of those parts are in current production in SMD form. So it would be wise for constructors to get used to them.

good points ... the UNIPI is still around ... its moved on a bit from where you guys last saw it ... it now has no user controls .. everything through a $4 bluetooth interface to a $40 android smartphone ( you can do so much with those cheap smartphones that actually using them as phones is incidental )
All the pulse sampling and TX pulses is there of course with 12.5 ns resolution. AD conversion and a "analogue" sounding sinewave VCO digitally synthesised PWM audio comes straight out of the chip with just a resistor and cap to filter straight into your headphones or bluetooth audio TX. Power supply timing and sync for main TX supply and analogue supply comes from the UNIPI also. The real trouble is getting an accurate build document together as any mistakes .. often quite trivial .. result in letting the expensive smoke out of one or more components which never does well for your reputation.

[Old cart]

Perhaps this could be offered as a development board, similar to what chip manufacturers use to allow designers to evaluate their parts. The development board could be all surface mount with a breadboard area for user development. This board would make a working detector but would not be offered as such. It could be called a development platform to discourage use by folks that need more help than can be reasonably provided. Alternately, it could be priced so that help could be provided.

[Old cart]

I forgot to mention that I would be willing to help the cause by assisting with the creation of a support/ build document.

[Monolith]

I forgot to mention that I would be willing to help the cause by assisting with the creation of a support/ build document.

It is very cheap to have a fully populated board manufactured in China. However, the coil, box and other external parts for the assembly, take some work and understanding. This ends up in thousands of questions. Just check on the simplest of designs on Geotech, to see how many questions. To answer all these questions takes an immense amount of time.

[Old cart]

I would not argue that. Perhaps this can be better handled by setting the proper expectations. By that I mean this is a development platform not a finished detector.

[Monolith]

I would not argue that. Perhaps this can be better handled by setting the proper expectations. By that I mean this is a development platform not a finished detector.

OK, I supply the basic design. Will you do the rest of the work?

[Old cart]

Nice comeback, but that is not exactly what I offered. I would however be happy to help with those aspects I can handle. That is the (joint) creation of a documentation package and help with the support. What basic design are you referring to?