field test unit no 001 "model T"

[Aziz]

*LOL*
Someone is lifting the idea of a poor poor guy.
Aziz

[moodz]

Hi Moodz
You have been a busy bee, I take my hat off too you
If you include England as part of your travels I can organise and sort you out some good pasture land for your demonstrations and arrange with potential buyers/retailers to attend the events.
If your seriously interested drop me a email and I can organise something for you.
I have some good ideas up my sleeve which will be of mutual benefit to both of us.
Regards
Dave

That will be interesting .... check your PM.

[sido]

Hi Moodz, I am interested in whatever you release.....but where can I find more information of the different models a few posts above??

Are you selling in kit form or complete??

Cheers Sid

[moodz]

Unless you are good at surface mount ... Kit form may be a bit problematic ....my legals tell me I should have a further patent placed on my ground balance so that is going on before I release any info.

[sido]

Unless you are good at surface mount ... Kit form may be a bit problematic ....my legals tell me I should have a further patent placed on my ground balance so that is going on before I release any info.

Hi Moodz. I am ok with SMT. Use to solder ubga and the smallest SMT footprint available such as Mobile Phones. Willing to give it a go. It's been a few years though.

The new releases from Garrett and ML have me interested so hope to see these detectors soon from you as these detectors (G & ML) look interesting in finding the small gold left behind due to detecting holes. Not sure with Garrett on Oz soils though, but would expect ML to work ok.

I am in the position to buy both of the detectors mentioned above, but willing to wait on your product if it can be available any time soon and perform equal or better

Have you tested the prototypes on our Victorian Goldfields?? And how did it go, as in handling our high mineralised soil??

What can you say about detecting holes??

BTW, what coils will be needed??

Regard's Sid

PS. What realistic time frame are you expecting for initial release?
Pss. Excuse me for the many question that you may or may not be able to answer at this present time.

[sido]

Further to add, I may be able to offer you in building a small production run for you if need to be and can be discussed further if your interested by email/PM. Would have to be hand built units though....

I have the time and resources at present and may be moving to Brunswick from my present location soon. This wont be till the start of February over the new year, so setting up a facility to accommodate such a production wont be to then.

I started a small self employed business recently but wont get busy for at least six months or more, so time is at hand if need to be. Got out of working in Electronics after 20 years but fair to say I miss the environment, just not the lifestyle.

Regards Sid

[moodz]

Further to add, I may be able to offer you in building a small production run for you if need to be and can be discussed further if your interested by email/PM. Would have to be hand built units though....

I have the time and resources at present and may be moving to Brunswick from my present location soon. This wont be till the start of February over the new year, so setting up a facility to accommodate such a production wont be to then.

I started a small self employed business recently but wont get busy for at least six months or more, so time is at hand if need to be. Got out of working in Electronics after 20 years but fair to say I miss the environment, just not the lifestyle.

Regards Sid

check your PM cheers Paul.


...hmmm it seems you PM is broken or not allowed ...

[sido]

check your PM cheers Paul.


...hmmm it seems you PM is broken or not allowed ...

Hi Moodz, enabled PM, should work now.

Regards Sid

[PATCHES JUNIOR]

Now there is a new detector that needs our help. It is 1000 times more sensitive than the latest Minelab in detecting gold. And needs no ground balancing at all!!! The only thing it needs is your money to develop it!!! This is straight from Marshal Pardee (Doug) in Australia, so it is a local bloke asking for your money. Not small money, but BIG money. I hope since Aziz and Doug are good mates he can fill us in on the details. Too bad it does not need a ground balance system, as Aziz could donate his WBGB to the project.

I have a screen shot of Dougs original post in case he retracks his claims. Good luck to his mate and his detector.

[moodz]

Now there is a new detector that needs our help. It is 1000 times more sensitive than the latest Minelab in detecting gold. And needs no ground balancing at all!!! The only thing it needs is your money to develop it!!! This is straight from Marshal Pardee (Doug) in Australia, so it is a local bloke asking for your money. Not small money, but BIG money. I hope since Aziz and Doug are good mates he can fill us in on the details. Too bad it does not need a ground balance system, as Aziz could donate his WBGB to the project.

I have a screen shot of Dougs original post in case he retracks his claims. Good luck to his mate and his detector.

Your post is off topic ....

[moodz]

Now there is a new detector that needs our help. It is 1000 times more sensitive than the latest Minelab in detecting gold. And needs no ground balancing at all!!! The only thing it needs is your money to develop it!!! This is straight from Marshal Pardee (Doug) in Australia, so it is a local bloke asking for your money. Not small money, but BIG money. I hope since Aziz and Doug are good mates he can fill us in on the details. Too bad it does not need a ground balance system, as Aziz could donate his WBGB to the project.

I have a screen shot of Dougs original post in case he retracks his claims. Good luck to his mate and his detector.

NO ONE has asked for any money in relation to this detector .. and the post says nothing about ground balance ... nothing about gold detection ... nothing about minelab and the 1000 gain you are talking about is completely out of context ... SO CHECK YOUR FACTS OR YOUR EYEGLASSES.

_____________________________________
( copy of my original post below )
------------------------------------------


It seems that some are unware of patented active damping techniques or maybe cant read or need a simple explanation.

HOW CURRENT PI detetectors work. ( simplified )
The pulse induction detector as known in the art ( ie the ones you can buy today ) generally has three states.

A. A transmit period during which a current pulse is passed through a coil. eg 200 microseconds

B. A flyback period during which a high voltage back EMF develops across the coil and the peak current in the coil rapidly decreases. eg 5 microseconds.

C. A decay period during which the residual current/voltage from the flyback period decays exponentially. A damping resistor is usually connected across the coil so that the coil does not ring during the decay period. eg up to 100s of microseconds.

The increase and decrease of current in the coil ( di / dt ) during period A and B cause eddy currents to be generated in conductive targets. These eddy currents in most targets will persist beyond period A and B above and can be detected by sampling the decay voltage or current of the coil in period C.
As you swing across a target the decay curve in C will change slightly and this is sampled and amplified and makes a beep or whatever in your headphones. Of course in a well designed detector there will be more carefully timed samples and processing to eliminate ground and the earths magnetic field both of which will appear as false target indications if you dont compensate for them. There are lots of patents and designs focusing on how to sample and pulse timings to improve these areas.

However dear reader there are very few patents on damping ... ( much to my relief ) ... because everyone has assumed that a damping resistor is the optimal way to damp a coil. Damping mathematically or practically applies to a system where you wish to modify an oscillating system. Oscillators are narrowband systems ... when in fact the PI is a broadband pulse system and when we talk about pulse systems we are talking about equalisation and impedance matching ... not oscillators.

Anyway I digress ... back to why the moodz detector is better..... there are a number of reasons but one of them is this.

Lets assume energy stored in the magnetic field during period A ( the tx period ) = 1.0 joule.
During period B ( the flyback ) most of this energy returns to the coil as the magnetic field collapses. Lets say 0.9 joule.
So where has the 0.1 joule gone ? Some is lost or stored in the ground, some is radiated as EMI and some is "stored" in the target as eddy currents.
The decaying eddy currents in the target are detected during period C by your standard PI detector. ( remember the decay curve ).

HOWEVER ... there is a complicating factor .... if a target is a distance X from the coil the eddy currents stimulated in the target during period A and B will be reduced by a factor of 1/XxXxX or one over X cubed. Call this the transmit path loss. During period C the same rule applies there will be a further path loss of 1/XxXxX as the standard PI detector tries to detect a target eddy current during period C. In other words the TX loss multiplied by the RX loss is 1/XxXxXxXxXxX or one over X to sixth power. All of this because the standard detector measures the target "return" signal during period C. This maths has been simplified the real maths still demonstrates the advantage.

The moodz detector does not measure the target return during period C ... there is very little decay curve to sample in period C because the active damping control loop of the moodz detector minimises this "error" voltage. The moodz detector effectively estimates the energy stored in the target ( ie the eddy current ) during transmit by subtracting the energy returned during flyback ( period B ) from the energy transmitted ( period A ) ie instead of measuring C we measure B - A This is just like alegbra :-) ..... except here is the killer ...... by measuring B - A instead of C the path loss to the target is only 1 / XxXxX for the moodz detector instead of 1 / XxXxXxXxXxX for your standard PI detectors. Thusly the moodz detector is 3 orders of magnitude more sensitive than your BrandX detector.

In numbers ... simplified and no ground / circuit or radiation losses .... and target is a distance of 10 units from the coil.

BrandX Detector

Period A : TX Energy = 1.0
Period B : Eddy Current Energy in target = 1/(10 x 10 x 10) = .001
Period C : Target decay RX = .001/(10 x 10 x 10) = .000001

ie RX signal = .000001

Moodz detector

Period A : TX Energy = 1.0
Period B : Return Energy during flyback = 0.999

ie RX signal = A - B = .001

moodz detector is 1000 times more sensitive.

OBVIOUSLY ... because the moodz detector does not try to detect target energy per se during period C ... it dispenses with all that crazy patented sampling schemes used over the years. Target holes ... what are they ? LOL.

There are at least 3 more innovative benefits of the moodz detector arguably as good as the target gain feature which I wont go into here however if you cannot see the benefit of having a 60 dbv increase in target sensitivity then just go and buy the BrandX detectors ... you dont need a moodz detector ... you cant buy one at the moment anyway. :-)

moodz

...he he ... some of this text sounds like it came from a patent

[Paul99]

NO ONE has asked for any money in relation to this detector .. and the post says nothing about ground balance ... nothing about gold detection ... nothing about minelab and the 1000 gain you are talking about is completely out of context ... SO CHECK YOUR FACTS OR YOUR EYEGLASSES.

_____________________________________
( copy of my original post below )
------------------------------------------


It seems that some are unware of patented active damping techniques or maybe cant read or need a simple explanation.

HOW CURRENT PI detetectors work. ( simplified )
The pulse induction detector as known in the art ( ie the ones you can buy today ) generally has three states.

A. A transmit period during which a current pulse is passed through a coil. eg 200 microseconds

B. A flyback period during which a high voltage back EMF develops across the coil and the peak current in the coil rapidly decreases. eg 5 microseconds.

C. A decay period during which the residual current/voltage from the flyback period decays exponentially. A damping resistor is usually connected across the coil so that the coil does not ring during the decay period. eg up to 100s of microseconds.

The increase and decrease of current in the coil ( di / dt ) during period A and B cause eddy currents to be generated in conductive targets. These eddy currents in most targets will persist beyond period A and B above and can be detected by sampling the decay voltage or current of the coil in period C.
As you swing across a target the decay curve in C will change slightly and this is sampled and amplified and makes a beep or whatever in your headphones. Of course in a well designed detector there will be more carefully timed samples and processing to eliminate ground and the earths magnetic field both of which will appear as false target indications if you dont compensate for them. There are lots of patents and designs focusing on how to sample and pulse timings to improve these areas.

However dear reader there are very few patents on damping ... ( much to my relief ) ... because everyone has assumed that a damping resistor is the optimal way to damp a coil. Damping mathematically or practically applies to a system where you wish to modify an oscillating system. Oscillators are narrowband systems ... when in fact the PI is a broadband pulse system and when we talk about pulse systems we are talking about equalisation and impedance matching ... not oscillators.

Anyway I digress ... back to why the moodz detector is better..... there are a number of reasons but one of them is this.

Lets assume energy stored in the magnetic field during period A ( the tx period ) = 1.0 joule.
During period B ( the flyback ) most of this energy returns to the coil as the magnetic field collapses. Lets say 0.9 joule.
So where has the 0.1 joule gone ? Some is lost or stored in the ground, some is radiated as EMI and some is "stored" in the target as eddy currents.
The decaying eddy currents in the target are detected during period C by your standard PI detector. ( remember the decay curve ).

HOWEVER ... there is a complicating factor .... if a target is a distance X from the coil the eddy currents stimulated in the target during period A and B will be reduced by a factor of 1/XxXxX or one over X cubed. Call this the transmit path loss. During period C the same rule applies there will be a further path loss of 1/XxXxX as the standard PI detector tries to detect a target eddy current during period C. In other words the TX loss multiplied by the RX loss is 1/XxXxXxXxXxX or one over X to sixth power. All of this because the standard detector measures the target "return" signal during period C. This maths has been simplified the real maths still demonstrates the advantage.

The moodz detector does not measure the target return during period C ... there is very little decay curve to sample in period C because the active damping control loop of the moodz detector minimises this "error" voltage. The moodz detector effectively estimates the energy stored in the target ( ie the eddy current ) during transmit by subtracting the energy returned during flyback ( period B ) from the energy transmitted ( period A ) ie instead of measuring C we measure B - A This is just like alegbra :-) ..... except here is the killer ...... by measuring B - A instead of C the path loss to the target is only 1 / XxXxX for the moodz detector instead of 1 / XxXxXxXxXxX for your standard PI detectors. Thusly the moodz detector is 3 orders of magnitude more sensitive than your BrandX detector.

In numbers ... simplified and no ground / circuit or radiation losses .... and target is a distance of 10 units from the coil.

BrandX Detector

Period A : TX Energy = 1.0
Period B : Eddy Current Energy in target = 1/(10 x 10 x 10) = .001
Period C : Target decay RX = .001/(10 x 10 x 10) = .000001

ie RX signal = .000001

Moodz detector

Period A : TX Energy = 1.0
Period B : Return Energy during flyback = 0.999

ie RX signal = A - B = .001

moodz detector is 1000 times more sensitive.

OBVIOUSLY ... because the moodz detector does not try to detect target energy per se during period C ... it dispenses with all that crazy patented sampling schemes used over the years. Target holes ... what are they ? LOL.

There are at least 3 more innovative benefits of the moodz detector arguably as good as the target gain feature which I wont go into here however if you cannot see the benefit of having a 60 dbv increase in target sensitivity then just go and buy the BrandX detectors ... you dont need a moodz detector ... you cant buy one at the moment anyway. :-)

moodz

...he he ... some of this text sounds like it came from a patent

Moodz, according to my detector design guru, this idea you have is as old as Methuselah.... or should that be Adam???

EDIT:.... do you remember our mate John Heenen??

[moodz]

Moodz, according to my detector design guru, this idea you have is as old as Methuselah.... or should that be Adam???

EDIT:.... do you remember our mate John Heenen??

Unless you can point to patents or other definitive prior art ... your post is off topic also.

[Paul99]

Unless you can point to patents or other definitive prior art ... your post is off topic also.

I don't need to point to anything. John Heenan proposed the same concepts as yourself many years ago. Why don't you look him up and learn something for a change.

When it came to the crunch it didn't work for John Heenan either.

[Carl-NC]

Mr. Heenan adamantly denied the existence of eddy currents. I read his posts for a while for the entertainment value, but I don't recall he proposed anything like this.