field test unit no 001 "model T"

[WM6]

PJ other than bundle wound coils being cheaper and easier to manufacture, what do you think are the technical benefits of bundle wound mono coils compared to spider or basket weave wound mono coils?

Doug, cheaper an easier are not only benefit with bundle coils. At the same wire length used it mean more inductance. More inductance mean stronger magnetic field. Stronger magnetic field mean more depth. Practically proven (I left theory for others).

Weakness: more coil parasitic C and this way harder to get short time constant (important in first line for tiny nuggets). But in question of depth (same diameter) bundle is better than spider.

This, if we are talking about classical PI technology. Maybe moodz new technological approach can overcome this physical facts - I don't know. I even do not understand his new technological solution in whole, but as most of us, I wish to see finally something (like prototype in field) working.

[moodz]

Hey wm6 .... I am just making coils to do detector tests .... I am not claiming anything ....the only reason for making a basket weave was to make a flat coil that was easy to pot in resin. Can't afford to buy 5 coils at $500 each. :-). Paranoid99 thinks everything is some sort of invention.

[WM6]

Hey wm6 .... I am just making coils to do detector tests .... I am not claiming anything ....the only reason for making a basket weave was to make a flat coil that was easy to pot in resin. Can't afford to buy 5 coils at $500 each. :-). Paranoid99 thinks everything is some sort of invention.

My respect and best wishes to your work, moodz.

I wish to see more technical and less personal discussion here. More technical Pro et Contra and less personal Pro et Contra.

[Paul99]

Hey wm6 .... I am just making coils to do detector tests .... I am not claiming anything ....

Yum Yum....

You really aren't the full quid Moodz. Perhaps you should deflate yourself, and then see what you can do to deflate Mr Pardonmee also.

[Doug2]

Doug, cheaper an easier are not only benefit with bundle coils. At the same wire length used it mean more inductance. More inductance mean stronger magnetic field. Stronger magnetic field mean more depth. Practically proven (I left theory for others).

Weakness: more coil parasitic C and this way harder to get short time constant (important in first line for tiny nuggets). But in question of depth (same diameter) bundle is better than spider.

This, if we are talking about classical PI technology. Maybe moodz new technological approach can overcome this physical facts - I don't know. I even do not understand his new technological solution in whole, but as most of us, I wish to see finally something (like prototype in field) working.

But if the inductance of a spider and bundle wound coil is the same then does the bundle wound coil have a higher field strength (same diam coils)?In my opinion you would need a big increase in field strength(due to higher inductance) to see a measurable increase in depth.Higher inductance will also change the coils Tc and in the case of a well known detector brand may result in a lower peak coil current at switch off !ie a lower field strength!
My experience with a spider wound litz mono was that its sensitivity (and depth capability) was significantly better than ANY equivalent diameter commercial mono!

[Aziz]

Oh man!,

I want my special answer from Robby_H "guru". Maybe he can raise his competence this time.
WM6, sorry but you are wrong.
^sif

[Doug2]

Yum Yum....

You really aren't the full quid Moodz. Perhaps you should deflate yourself, and then see what you can do to deflate Mr Pardonmee also.

Someone that has numerous forum aliases and has even posted as a woman on my forum like you is definitely not the full quid!!!!!

[Doug2]

Oh man!,

I want my special answer from Robby_H "guru". Maybe he can raise his competence this time.
WM6, sorry but you are wrong.
^sif

Do you think we can we get the same benefits of spider wound coils but without using Litz wire?

[Paul99]

Someone that has numerous forum aliases and has even posted as a woman on my forum like you is definitely not the full quid!!!!!

It was amusing to see the deviant members of your forum get all excited and standing up straight. Is it the normal scenario for blokes to get that excited if they think a woman has turned up?

[Davor]

Let alone a troll...

[Aziz]

Do you think we can we get the same benefits of spider wound coils but without using Litz wire?

Yes!

[WM6]

Oh man!,

WM6, sorry but you are wrong.

^sif

No problem Aziz, I am not scientist and can be easily wrong. Please explain, where I am wrong.

If I am wrong, then should be some other explanation, for my test results. It shows that basket designs, at same diameter and same wire length used, are (depending on targets and spider windings from coil edge to center surface) about 1/3 shallower in depth than bundle design, all at max sens settings.

@Dough. Yes, using more wire length, we can get more inductance, but at the same time more resistance (and more parasitic C) in coil too. Classical one level spiders are at same diameter limited in number of wire turns. We can overcome this by using multilevel (stocking) spider design but with multiple undesirable side-effect too.

[Paul99]

Hey wm6 .... I am just making coils to do detector tests .... I am not claiming anything ....the only reason for making a basket weave was to make a flat coil that was easy to pot in resin. Can't afford to buy 5 coils at $500 each. :-). Paranoid99 thinks everything is some sort of invention.

Hell Moodz, so why were you waffling on with your three reasons in a previous post as to why you reckoned the spider design was better?? Pity all those reasons all hinged upon high frequencies to give any of the advantages you were claiming. You also better explain to DougAEGPoof that when the basket weave is used as a crystal set antenna it is only receiving, and at that it is picking up a signal from the extremes of the farfield. Further, the coil axis is typically parallel to the ground, not perpendicular to it. Now, I reckon the bit about the coil axis being parallel to the ground deserves some thought. What do you reckon, and why?

[Paul99]

WM6, sorry but you are wrong.
^sif

Would you like to comment upon the effect of the weave crossover angle between adjacent windings, ^sif?

[Aziz]

No problem Aziz, I am not scientist and can be easily wrong. Please explain, where I am wrong.

If I am wrong, then should be some other explanation, for my test results. It shows that basket designs, at same diameter and same wire length used, are (depending on targets and spider windings from coil edge to center surface) about 1/3 shallower in depth than bundle design, all at max sens settings.

@Dough. Yes, using more wire length, we can get more inductance, but at the same time more resistance (and more parasitic C) in coil too. Classical one level spiders are at same diameter limited in number of wire turns. We can overcome this by using multilevel (stocking) spider design but with multiple undesirable side-effect too.

Hellow WM6,

I want that explanation from "master guru" Robby_H. *LOL*
^sif