Replies to Minipulse Plus

[Qiaozhi]

(5) Play with the value of C12 (coupling cap.) as suggested in a post by Eric. He suggested an electro up to 22uF or even DC coupling and that scoping across R10 should show a flat DC baseline. From memory, I think one of the pulses in this area showed a slight overshoot – will have to go back and check that again.

When I back-engineered the original Minipulse design, the value of C12 was found to be 470nF, and that's why the Minipulse Plus uses the same value.
With 470nF, the corner frequency of this high-pass filter is ~34Hz, and with the 22uF (suggested by Eric) it's 0.7Hz.

While experimenting with a different design to the MPP, I encountered the same problem with less than perfect Earth field elimination (EFE), so decided to investigate further. This design was also using a high-pass filter between the preamp and the sampling integrator, with a capacitor value of 470nF, and there was a definite improvement in EFE when this capacitor was increased in value. However, there was a much greater improvement when the capacitor was shorted out, and the resistor to ground (R19 [10k] in the MPP) was removed. I'm not sure whether this is possible with the MPP, as it does not possess the ability to set the null-offset of the preamp, so maybe you can try this and report back. If increasing C12 to 22uF, or shorting C12 and removing R19 does not do the trick, then you will need to look elsewhere for the problem.

[Goaty]

Thanks for that info George. I will play around with it next week.

[Goaty]

Strange test – Strange results!



A search through my ‘Junk Box’ turned up a 22uF electro so I tacked it across C12 and took the detector outside for a quick test. It still seemed to be falsing on anything but a slow swing, even at head height.
Then I had an idea – what would happen if I swung it in a complete circle? (other than getting dizzy and falling over )

With the shaft horizontal at waist height and the coil vertical I rotated clockwise in complete circles and it only falsed on the Eastern side

When I rotated anti-clockwise the falsing occurred on the Western side of the circle.
Not too sure what to make of the results – seems to be magnetic field related but too dizzy to figure it out at the moment
.

Has anyone any ideas on how to interpret these results?
PS I am in the Southern Hemisphere

[Qiaozhi]

Strange test – Strange results!



A search through my ‘Junk Box’ turned up a 22uF electro so I tacked it across C12 and took the detector outside for a quick test. It still seemed to be falsing on anything but a slow swing, even at head height.
Then I had an idea – what would happen if I swung it in a complete circle? (other than getting dizzy and falling over )

With the shaft horizontal at waist height and the coil vertical I rotated clockwise in complete circles and it only falsed on the Eastern side

When I rotated anti-clockwise the falsing occurred on the Western side of the circle.
Not too sure what to make of the results – seems to be magnetic field related but too dizzy to figure it out at the moment
.

Has anyone any ideas on how to interpret these results?
PS I am in the Southern Hemisphere

It would be easier to test the Earth field elimination by waving a white board magnet a few inches away from the coil.

[Goaty]

It would be easier to test the Earth field elimination by waving a white board magnet a few inches away from the coil.

Agreed but I was curious as to why it only sounded when the swing changed direction and it would indicate the the falsing is not due to any mechanical deflection with direction change as the forces are all constant with circular motion other than the way the coil is interacting with the lines of force of the Earth's magnetic field.
(Also, I don't have any suitable ceramic magnets handy - only rare earth types with metal coatings ex hdd)

This would still indicate that the problem is in the EFE circuit somewhere - It's just a matter of finding it!

[Goaty]

Recalibrated damping resistor on bundle-wound coil. Checked all test point waveforms - all good and to spec.

Still falsing!!

Swapped out U5 as TP3 showed slight distortion - still falsing!

I think I will try a 100R balance trimpot between R24 & R25 with wiper to C12. Will leave the 22uF across C12 in place

[Qiaozhi]

I think I will try a 100R balance trimpot between R24 & R25 with wiper to C12. Will leave the 22uF across C12 in place

I don't think that will make any difference, as it's only used for fine tuning if you're not using 1% tolerance resistors.

What are the details of your coil?
Also, I remember a long time ago that I once accidentally connected the coax screen to the the TX output, and the central core to 0V by mistake. It worked fine on the bench, but was falsing everywhere in the field. So, I'm just wondering if it might be a shield problem.

[Goaty]

I don't think that will make any difference, as it's only used for fine tuning if you're not using 1% tolerance resistors.

What are the details of your coil?
Also, I remember a long time ago that I once accidentally connected the coax screen to the the TX output, and the central core to 0V by mistake. It worked fine on the bench, but was falsing everywhere in the field. So, I'm just wondering if it might be a shield problem.

Already tried the 100R trimpot - you could be right about it not making much difference. Would a higher value make any difference and, if so, what would you recommend?

The coil at the moment is bundle wound stranded Cu wire with Cu foil shield. 431 uH & 1.6R resistance 250mm diam. Damping R 700R - set with variable resistor network to just remove any ringing.
Meter check confirms connections correct.

I did not follow up shorting C12 and removing R19 as it seemed pointless when increasing C12 to 22uF showed no improvement.

The component values in the Sampling Integrator were supposedly 1% (Chinese) but I checked them all with a meter as I was building it.

Starting to get splinters in my fingers with all of the head scratching over this - may just have to slow down and live with it for now. The warmer weather is starting to arrive here so I will give it a good test on the beach soon and see how much of a nuisance the falsing is.

Thanks once again for your suggestions - really appreciated!

[green]

Already tried the 100R trimpot - you could be right about it not making much difference. Would a higher value make any difference and, if so, what would you recommend?

Look at integrator out, TP4 with a scope. Hold ceramic or fridge magnet next to coil and pull away quickly. Try with pot adjusted each end, if pot is high enough resistance polarity at TP4 should change. Don't have a MPP but works with my detector.

[Goaty]

Already tried the 100R trimpot - you could be right about it not making much difference. Would a higher value make any difference and, if so, what would you recommend?

Look at integrator out, TP4 with a scope. Hold ceramic or fridge magnet next to coil and pull away quickly. Try with pot adjusted each end, if pot is high enough resistance polarity at TP4 should change. Don't have a MPP but works with my detector.

Thanks for that - I will give it a try as soon as possible.

[Tibuck19]

Is there a way to get the MMP to sound more like the GPZ hum rather then the clicking ?

[dbanner]

Is there a way to get the MMP to sound more like the GPZ hum rather then the clicking ?

I am just completing the minipulse but I hate the click click sound. It is no good for faster sweep speed on beach. It would be nice to see a more improved audio vco circuit for what is otherwise a very good design. Something along the lines of a small stand alone PCB mod for better vco audio.
So much work done to bring fine kit with build instructions etc., But same annoying click click Geiger counter rubbish.

[kt315]

you can record your voice. MPP will say GOLD on gold and FERROUS on ferrous. improved? i think yes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-5V-6s-I...YuNr:rk:4:pf:0

[dbanner]

And what about the vSAT/sweep speed relationship with click click bumblebee in your ears. Some people just want to get on with things and not spend hundreds of man hours experimenting with VCO mod, having to learn rocket science in the interim.
If you want a good beach detector, why heck, just buy one.

[Tibuck19]

I am just completing the minipulse but I hate the click click sound. It is no good for faster sweep speed on beach. It would be nice to see a more improved audio vco circuit for what is otherwise a very good design. Something along the lines of a small stand alone PCB mod for better vco audio.

That was exactly I was thinking a VCO board for the audio.