Open Metal Detector Project Charter

[Davor]

I'm looking for that third option that makes industry so happy that they don't sue you but lets us all collaborate to enjoy our own ideas. Wouldn't that be nice.

But it already is nice. And on this very forum. There actually are projects that live, and that are a consequence of collective effort, and some of them do produce detectors and add-ons up to the expectations of the participants and more. And people are happy with them. I'm not at all into making a pro-looking detector with market share expectations. And I'm gradually losing stomach for corporate garbage that is constantly thrown into all aspects of my life.

I'd be glad to jump in at aspects that I recognise as ones my contribution will be welcome, a dare or two, but not as a member of some appalling corporate-like body. I just won't let corporate slime drip into my happy bubble. A corporation may offer me a job, and I may accept it if offer is good, but I'll not let it invade or cancel my personal time. Anonymity served me just fine in that matter so far.

So in case this initiative is free allover without corporate-like behaviour or market expectations, I'll support it.

[Sean_Goddard]

Perhaps, Minelab patents are mostly garbage that a five year old could have thought of.

I believe patents have their place.
However in the case of Minelab it is mostly marketing.

I have read some of their patent material, and my assessment is that it is formulas describing physical reality, The same as a patent for a gene sequence.

There may be a few basic novel concepts hidden under the garbage, but I can't see it.

I am guessing that it is a case of 5% technology, 80% marketing and 15% patent attorneys.
I believe that Patent attorneys make money from patents, 99% of which are worthless.

Funny, from looking an ML's patents, I see the SAME THING Tec.

Looking at their past adverts too, it's 90% BS covered by Flim-Flam, wrapped up in "lies" and made up technical terms designed to sound "cool" and appeal to the vast majoroity of detectorits who are, and I mean no offence by this, VERY ignorant of the technical side and have only what manufacturers tell them to go on. I mean, VFLEX (oohh sounds very technical). Tesoros HOT (high output transmitter - ROFLMAO). High power in my book is anything over 10KW NOT 250mW

You can't patent the laws of physics which is what ML, it would apprear, have allegedly attempted to do (and not too well to the trained eye either)!!

Go back to the OLD geotech forum patents page, look at Tesoro and Garrett patents. Identical block diagrams, and very similar claims How did BOTH get published? Surely this is the PO's fault, they are supposed to examine applications in detail are they not, and it is a requirement that BW cited references. If he did the research himself, then more fool him, he should have gotten an independent patent examiner to review his documents BEFORE he submitted them.

That said, I'm VERY firmly on BW's side in this and I think WE should be writing letters to the various PO's challenging ML's patents. If enough of us do this it might help.

Hitler tried fighting on multiple fronts, look what happened there!!

OH and WELL SAID DAVOR!!

[chudster]

Davor,

No one will force anybody to join or do anything. Its up to you and if working in anonymity contributing as you see fit is your thing no one should burst your bubble.

Have a look though at http://arduino.cc/en/Main/FAQ

Particularly the bit about what is open source hardware.

And yes they have formed a corporate entity Arduino LLC for that design. Interestingly an entity/structure espoused by Sean. Good reasons for doing that of course.
Is that slimy corporate stuff? No its probably smart as Sean acknowledged.

Look at the innovation and success being opened up by the Arduino approach to open source hardware started by two blokes in Italy. Its so successful it is even 'infecting' detector designs in this forum.

Now I am not suggesting that we copy Arduino verbatim. I believe we can actually can do better.......

I am for the Status Flow and not the Status Quo. So lets see who has some vision and plasticity to explore divergent thinking and do great things for detector technology.

Chudster

[PATCHES JUNIOR]

My only wish is that Aziz does not post his "worlds best ground balance" here and someone steals it! That would be a travesty for sure. Or maybe he should post it. That way it would be protected according to some of you here on being let out to the public before a patent could be had. Or am I missing something?

[chudster]

My only wish is that Aziz does not post his "worlds best ground balance" here and someone steals it! That would be a travesty for sure. Or maybe he should post it. That way it would be protected according to some of you here on being let out to the public before a patent could be had. Or am I missing something?

I don't want to bring arguments here but let us use this to explore the problem.

Aziz's WBGB is currently not being shared or used. I don't know when it was first mentioned but I think that has been the case for a while. Why not? It appears he is worried that someone might take it, improve or obfuscate a patent around it. In the meantime we don't have the ability to try, test and put it into service if we decide it is better than WC(Current)GB. We are all the poorer for that. Innovation is the poorer. Instead we argue over 'what we know but won't tell' and please excuse me, who has the biggest and best ... whatever.

The Status Flow says we will solve that problem and remove reasons not to share. The Status Quo says we stay frustrated, not sharing and building up endless posts rather than improving MD designs.

Chudster

[Aziz]

My only wish is that Aziz does not post his "worlds best ground balance" here and someone steals it! That would be a travesty for sure. Or maybe he should post it. That way it would be protected according to some of you here on being let out to the public before a patent could be had. Or am I missing something?

As long as the technology is kept secret, it is best secured from the infamous lift master. I've told you too, that your lift master hasn't the real integrity to invent it. All your and your friends effort in trying to get the technology is a waste of time.
And this is a good demonstration of how to secure a real good IP.

You know, how you can get the technology: Sue me.

[Midas]

Hi Chudster,

The current reward system:
1.The raw satisfaction of helping someone
2.The appreciation of others
3.The acclaim of others

Not a brilliant system, but at least you automatically recieve reward No. 1, and maybe 2 and 3 if your lucky. Importantly, rewards are somewhat proportional to the contribution. If you try and make the rewards tangible things then equitable distribution becomes the killer. All ideas and contributions are not created equal, and impartial and informed assessment of ideas\contributions is practically impossible. If you could convince me you had a system that solves that BIG problem and all the problems Carl pointed out, then I might be interested. Not sure if I'd be into the skype thing though... I'm a shy guy.

Midas

[Tec]

Hi Chudster,

The current reward system:
1.The raw satisfaction of helping someone
2.The appreciation of others
3.The acclaim of others

Midas

All of the above is worthless to me.
I have no money, and I can barely afford to buy food.

I like the arduino model though.. It funds itself by having a central website , a centre of gravity and 'official' Printed Circuit boards, or fully assembled boards.
They manufacture and sell hardware and also sell licenses to logos.

Because there are so many uses for the hardware there is lots of demand.

There are less uses for a piece of hardware that does one thing (Metal detector), however it can still work I believe.

I think an open-source creative commons design and software will encourage interest and use, because people will be able to modify understand and improve.

The funding to sustain the design can come through official PCBs and source code releases that bear the logo of the product. (Others must specify 'clone' or 'compatible')
A website that provides links to information as well as the ability to buy-now PCBs, components and Donate for firmware official firmware releases, could fund the project.

The prices would be better because the volumes would be higher, and we would tend to use it because the prices are better..

such a project could sustain and fund itself on a smaller scale to the way in which Arduino works.

I am considering doing it for my design.


Tec

[chudster]

Hi Chudster,

The current reward system:
1.The raw satisfaction of helping someone
2.The appreciation of others
3.The acclaim of others

Not a brilliant system, but at least you automatically recieve reward No. 1, and maybe 2 and 3 if your lucky. Importantly, rewards are somewhat proportional to the contribution. If you try and make the rewards tangible things then equitable distribution becomes the killer. All ideas and contributions are not created equal, and impartial and informed assessment of ideas\contributions is practically impossible. If you could convince me you had a system that solves that BIG problem and all the problems Carl pointed out, then I might be interested. Not sure if I'd be into the skype thing though... I'm a shy guy.

Midas

I wouldn't want those rewards to change by anything we did. Happy for you to be involved or to see whether you want to get involved later if there is momentum for the status flow. I aim that the problems you mention will be solved by any proposition put forward.

Chudster

[IBGold]

Hi all,

The problem is as I see it being currently involved in a development program as coordinator of the Tinkerer GG Detector Project is that only very few of the group members actually input into the project in our case about half it is like pulling teeth to get some members to contribute their expertise so closed group involvement also has its problems and ours is only a group of six.

Regards, Ian.

[Davor]

True, but Tinkerer is already quite far from the rest of us in TEM technology. It happens in all walks of creativity - the process occasionally just clogs. You can't motivate it by money or force, it just happens. The best you can do is staying out of the way, and PJ, UF and the rest of the trolls know that instinctively - they stand in the way.

About the reward system, there is a nice and incredibly educational cartoon explaining this stuff at: http://vimeo.com/15488784

In short, once the task at hand requires some rudimentary cognitive skills the monetary bonus schemes stop working.

[Qiaozhi]

http://vimeo.com/15488784[/URL]

Superb!

Everyone should watch this, especially managers.

[Aziz]

Superb!

Everyone should watch this, especially managers.

You mean the group of scum, that do almost nothing but want to have the most of the cake?


Yeah, nice vid.

[chudster]

Regarding the video, its relevant to quote myself.

I understand the challenge you talk about. As a manager though, its disquieting though that the DEC alpha chip was developed to have breakthrough performance without any formal management or project approval and funding from DEC. In fact they did it to prove management wrong. It is amazing what a rabble might do if motivated.

The video is a very good description of the motivation for technical excellence. The subject and theory of the video is well known. Now where is the motivated rabble who wants to achieve mastery and have a sense of purpose?

Chudster

[Carl-NC]

Excellent video!