Competition!

[pito]

Thanks Carl

[pito]

@ivconic

Before inserting the wire into the pipe, make a mold from Styrofoam, practice with different wires and the number of turns, and then insert the wire into the pipe, applying some grease ( Wire Pulling Lubricant )

and using fishing method ( you not only push the wire but also pull it ) you can fill up the pipe to about 80%.

[Op04]

Now its clearer than ever thanks Bbsailor & Tinkerer

[Carl-NC]

Thanks for the answer Sir, so in my mind, we must keep number turn a lot more but still catch up with coil TX On , but again we need the current flow quite enough current to meet deeper detection and when use high AWG number the coil will not survive if applied with high current as we want more turn then we need resistor, what confusing is in the TDI on the old one and newer version the damp is differ, the newer use 580 ohm while the old version using 680 ohm vs each using differ voltage but both version can use the same minelab coil now that's need a lot explanation. Since Ivconic bring this question, I think we need more spesific answer. Why do commercial coil always have successful build with all different damping and voltage? Making with litz is hefty price. So when build DIY coil we must take carefully damping differently? for the same machine vs commercial one.

I did not know that later TDIs use 580Ω. My preference is to slightly underdamp the coil which gives faster settling and earlier sampling. In most cases a fairly wide variety of coils will work with a given damping resistor.

On commercial vs DIY, commercial coils are made on a coil winding machine which keeps the wire under tension and makes a tighter-wound coil. This might give 1 or 2 fewer turns than a DIY.

[Op04]

I did not know that later TDIs use 580Ω. My preference is to slightly underdamp the coil which gives faster settling and earlier sampling. In most cases a fairly wide variety of coils will work with a given damping resistor.

On commercial vs DIY, commercial coils are made on a coil winding machine which keeps the wire under tension and makes a tighter-wound coil. This might give 1 or 2 fewer turns than a DIY.

Well that solve my confusionthanks a lot!

[ivconic]

In an older Tesoro video, we had the opportunity to see that the coils are wound with a wire passing through a sponge soaked in alcohol,
and the wire itself has an adhesive layer on it.
The alcohol temporarily softens the adhesive layer and then the windings stick to each other.
The main problem (at least for me) with DIY is that I never have a series of the same enclosures secured. It's always random.
That's why I never decided to make a good "jig" for winding coils.
That's why I have over 50 "templates" made of wood with hammered nails or toothpicks in the attic.
But even those templates are not good, they do not ensure that the coils lie properly.
When winding a PI coil, this is less pronounced, but when winding an I/B coil, the relaxed windings measure up to 0.5mH less than the later tightened windings.
I remember, I always wound the coil for Tesoro to account for the later increase in inductance by 0.5mH.
However, I am convinced that I have a different problem here.
The most likely difference here is that I am winding with single wire, and it would be better to use multi-wire, litz or stranded.

[Tinkerer]

What we really need is not a competition but a coalition of members so we can come up with a new design for a DIY machine and ignite the interest of on-lookers, new-comers and old-timers in the hobby.

I liked the idea of Felezjoo PI and the involvement of so many users to build, test and troubleshoot the design, we could do something similar and maybe we can come up with something new and unique.
No matter how big or small the partitipation will be, all members could benefit from the knowledge and especially new-comers to electronics like me.

Count me in, I hope I can contribute in any way I can and learn along the way.

A coalition or a team working on a common goal.
That is the base for great accomplishments.

Where do we start?

Find the willing and capable.

Who is willing? Please come forward.

Who is capable? There is place for anybody. From simple coil building, electronics, mechatronics, design, to advanced algorithm writing.

Most of all, we need Problem Solvers. The forum members live in many countries spread all over the world. Not all have access to all materials.
Not all have access to all the tools. Not all have the same knowledge base and the same skills. Can we solve these problems?

If the team can solve these problems, there is nothing that the team can not accomplish.

A competition is for a bunch of people of equal level to work against each other to see which is the best.

[ivconic]

...The forum members live in many countries spread all over the world. Not all have access to all materials.
Not all have access to all the tools. Not all have the same knowledge base and the same skills. Can we solve these problems?...

This is actually the most important thing for consensus.
If you look at the forum from its start until today; the most successful projects were ONLY those that could be built by the majority.
Has anyone looked at how much interest there is in TGSL and Delta Pulse? Till today!

Example, Tesoro Golden Sabre - TGSL started and continued there:

[ivconic]

Is it possible to start a topic today that will reach a million views?
Reviews are not the same as participating and working on a project.
OK.
But I know very well how widespread TGSL was around the world and how many people made it.
I've been seeing it mentioned everywhere for years.
Youtube is full of videos on the subject of TGSL.
What does this tell us?
Relatively "complex" (or simple) design, not entirely easy to make successfully, mostly through-hole pcb, although there were also SMD attempts,
components are all "old" and easily available. Easily interchangeable with newer components.
And honestly speaking; very good project.
The detector is not "crazy" deep, but it has decent depths, extremely good discrimination and GEB and really "loves" silver!
Some of the most valuable and beautiful silver finds I have found with it so far.
...
And on the other hand, we have a dozen "highly profane" projects, it would not be fair to name them.
Which NO ONE followed or tried to replicate, even to participate in the thread and leave even a comment.
The fate of such projects is the same, nobody mentions them and nobody remembers them.

[moodz]

.. good story and points ( however I suspect there are 9 ( half built ) TGSLs in the cupboard for every one that is in use.
Most of the fun was probably building it and for those who cant afford to go commercial maybe their only choice.
You could probably devote a whole website to the TGSL.
However a forum is not very good for project work as its like being on a telephone call where everyone drops in and out and sometimes you are talking to yourself and the main project posts just go off topic all the time and very hard to follow even for the project originator. It would work better if there were project posting pages ( not forum posts ) and a database to store the project assets in where authors can submit and final versions posted to a "commit" area.
Improvements and suggestions would be handled by a change management system ( request system ) that unlike a forum is more focussed on solving the issue or applying the change and updating the project pages.
You can still talk about it in the forum ... but reference the change request ( references ).

[profesor]

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1702/9/5/9...hines-09-00092.

All theory is given here.
Let's put this circuit into practice.
a different approach.

[ivconic]

.. good story and points ( however I suspect there are 9 ( half built ) TGSLs in the cupboard for every one that is in use.
Most of the fun was probably building it and for those who cant afford to go commercial maybe their only choice.
You could probably devote a whole website to the TGSL.
However a forum is not very good for project work as its like being on a telephone call where everyone drops in and out and sometimes you are talking to yourself and the main project posts just go off topic all the time and very hard to follow even for the project originator. It would work better if there were project posting pages ( not forum posts ) and a database to store the project assets in where authors can submit and final versions posted to a "commit" area.
Improvements and suggestions would be handled by a change management system ( request system ) that unlike a forum is more focussed on solving the issue or applying the change and updating the project pages.
You can still talk about it in the forum ... but reference the change request ( references ).

You are probably right, that was back in 2006 when the market situation was different.
Today, we have a flood of supply even in the most remote and smallest markets.
Certainly, today everyone can afford an original detector, and even more than one.
As for the rest; an interesting proposal and if done well by the admin; it will turn out well in the end.
But these are all technical details, both about the project and about participation.
And it's all ok. However, we remain without a consensus on the level of technology to be used.
The one for the 95% or the one for the 5%.
I'm afraid that every next attempt will have the fate of AMX, but that the whole story will last much less.
If I see even one component that I cannot find in the local market; I give up immediately without explanation and I'm gone
(it's not a loss, but the problem is that the other 95% will give up too).
Personally, I have so far wasted too much precious time and energy on similar stories that do not make sense.
Somehow I already know the outcome in advance, so don't count on me, even as an silent observer.
2-3 of you go knock yourself out with state of the art top notch ultra turbo highly advanced Xspace ideas and projects, wish you luck!

[Carl-NC]

What we really need is not a competition but a coalition of members so we can come up with a new design for a DIY machine and ignite the interest of on-lookers, new-comers and old-timers in the hobby.

This has been tried, several times, and it has failed every time. Coalitions simply don't work; I think Chudster's "Open detector project" was the last to go down in flames. The better approach is for someone to spearhead a project and publicly develop it here, with input from the gallery. Even that doesn't always work. Remember Robert Hoolko's IB project, parts 1-40? A masterful journey through IB design, yet most his posts got no replies or inputs despite lots of apparent interest (judging from the views). AMX is another example, where my available time evaporated and the project stopped. OTOH, Auto-Mation-Assist's AGD development is a recent example of success, and there have been others like it (from Moodz, Deemon, Tinkerer, Teemo, etc).

I think what I will do is create a "Challenge" forum where someone can post a design challenge like, "I would like to see an all-analog 2-frequency project that works well in salt water." Then, if someone is interested, they can develop the project here on the forum. If it generates enough momentum I can break it out into its own project subforum. If a design is heavy on the firmware side then probably a parallel Git repository is in order, but development updates and discussions can still be on the forum.

Bottom line is, a project needs a project leader, and it seems there are few willing or able to do that task. I don't have time, all my spare time right now goes into getting ITMD-3 finished. When it's done, I hope to resurrect AMX and get it fully working. So I think the real challenge is this: Who is willing to lead a project?

[pito]

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1702/9/5/9...hines-09-00092.

All theory is given here.
Let's put this circuit into practice.
a different approach.

they did

http://www.md4u.ru/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=11009&start=225

[pito]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bGkiEAq9kZY