Motion vs Non-Motion Metal Detectors

[ivconic]

There are tests on my chanel, I think you'll like separation in the ground

https://youtube.com/shorts/0FlbCPPxI...MRgNSAorzyaLF1

Your videos are best arguments for my persistence in insisting on non-motion project.

[Orbit]

https://youtu.be/yq926W5uPDs?feature=shared Ivice this is a combination of pulse star 2 and something else this pi has an auto reset.. I'll fast to see some more opinions.. And then I'll help you, since I know what you're working on. https://youtu.be/PRpSpz9P40k?feature=shared

[Carl-NC]

Well I've already suggested it multiple times here, my neck has turned blood red from suggesting it!

Are you suggesting that someone else do the work? What I am saying is that YOU should drive the project. I will be glad to help, but I cannot drive it, I have too many projects already. Start by defining what you ideal detector looks like, we can then probably pick an existing design as a starting point.

[moodz]

Are you suggesting that someone else do the work? What I am saying is that YOU should drive the project. I will be glad to help, but I cannot drive it, I have too many projects already. Start by defining what you ideal detector looks like, we can then probably pick an existing design as a starting point.

Dont worry Ivica we all suffer ...

They say that there are four main types of avoidance archetypes, or procrastinators: the performer, the self-deprecator, the overbooker, and the novelty seeker. Figuring out which group you're in can help you break out of your procrastination patterns — and maybe even turn in something early.

[ivconic]

Although I make too much noise and write too much (must be some kind of mental illness, oye?) in reality I am not "enterprising" and overly "ambitious".
(My empty wallet is proof of that.)
You won't believe it, but I don't like being the center of attention. And I don't like to "lead" anything. I'm not a team player. I can't stand authority figures. Etc. Enough about me.
...
So Moodz... I'm not delaying anything, I just don't have an idea and I don't have a solution.
...
I can only say what I wish we had here as a DIY project. And that's pretty much what you see in ysabxe's videos.
With a small note (and this will also come in handy for ysabxe in further work on his detector) and that is;
- Such a detector should also have a sound on iron, different of course.
- And maybe a switch to switch between the two modes of operation; with a sound for the iron and without a sound for the iron, as one like.
- It should have a variable pitch in the sound based on the signal strength.
- And a mod with variable pitch in the sound based on the conductivity of the target.
- So, with a couple of switches, the user chooses between those options and modes.
- I really like everything else in the videos and have no other complaints or ideas for modifications.
That's a fairly detailed project.
Additional notes:
I really like the "black box" concept with as few "commands" as possible. I really like that it doesn't have an LCD. There are no soft buttons, that's also I like much.

[ysabxe]

More you dig in trash more understand that dual tone just distracs. NFD 90 works different so you need to rethink old experience. About VDI or pitch... that don't work on trashy areas (iron changes signal alot) so you will miss low conductors and even bigger targets. It can be done but in other model with other tasks. If there many small iron in the ground Disc becomes blindness in most MDs... You can find something but mosly high conducted or big coins. Separation in that places is not what we think in our heads there is 3D dependence...

https://youtu.be/sT5DTe61l24?si=8h_YJvDjesvFEclT

https://youtu.be/RRF6HrMFnYY?si=sPztcCs-UKC_Ruxs

[Carl-NC]

"Iron blanking" (nulling the audio on iron targets) tends to cause masking on a close-but-weaker good target. I prefer to hear the iron targets, preferably with a low tone, and preferably with a somewhat muted volume. This will often allow a close-but-weaker good target to squeak through. I also prefer a tone that is proportional to the target phase so I can tell a low conductor from a high conductor. It is also a good way to ID a complex target like a steel bottle cap.

Next, my preferred design would not rotate the X & R channels for GB or disc, but would leave them at ideal quadrature. I would then create a G-channel for GB and place selective autotune circuits on all the channels to allow either static or motion modes. I would then use a 3-position switch like on White's models: center = motion mode; momentary pull = pinpoint; forward = static AM.

All of this can be done in an all-analog design using mundane chips, although it would be easier (to me) to use a micro. This is not incredibly far from some of Tesoro's designs.

[pito]

I can try to do it , the first step I need attiny85 quadrature generator.

[ysabxe]

"Iron blanking" (nulling the audio on iron targets) tends to cause masking on a close-but-weaker good target. I prefer to hear the iron targets, preferably with a low tone, and preferably with a somewhat muted volume. This will often allow a close-but-weaker good target to squeak through...

There are dynamic MDs with sepparate GB chanel... Even if you rebuild schem in static there will be lost in sepparation with long gorizontal nails... Don't forget about Disc and how it compares signals, iron overloading etc... Hiden stones apears after tests

I chose best separation even if iron nulls thrashold, sensitivity remains better than enough to find low conducted coin near big long ferrous target. Trying to do something similar on lower khz but many stones still there

https://youtu.be/MSDDxzZUlOk?si=l6jeojbFUZHxqh15

[ivconic]

Both Ysabxe's and Carl's arguments and observations are valid.
Ysabxe you are absolutely right... if we are talking about a single channel detector like the Cscope 1220B for example, which has all the flaws you mentioned.
Its pitch audio knows to quickly jump and drop if multiple targets with different conductivities are present. And it's confusing and doesn't do much good.
On the other hand, Carl is absolutely right, we lose a lot of information by simply blanking the signals of targets we don't want.
Once upon a time when I was driven by strong enthusiasm; I tried to solve this on IGSL by adding channels in two groups of two, and those two groups work from
start to finish completely independently.
It turned out well in the end... and even better when Davor joined in and corrected some of my mistakes.
Now, the same should be done with your detector.
I keep mentioning the Cscope 1220B because I've worked with it for a long time, had a lot of success (and failure), and it's in my blood.
So I thought I'd revisit that schematic and do the same with it as I did with the IGSL.
Because that detector has everything solved as far as conductivity-based audio pitch is concerned.
I don't need to reinvent the wheel, I just need to use good solutions from that design.
The problem is that I don't have a completely readable schematic. I have a blurry version with a lot of unrecognizable details. Big chance for error.
Such a detector, described earlier in my previous post; will have everything. With the help of only two DPDT toggle switches, the user will be able to easily choose the mode of operation that suits him at that moment.
And until that moment, everything is clear to me and I can do it. What remains to be improved on such a design; is an auto-zeroing circuit.

[ivconic]

On modern machines, starting with the "golden" XP series: Gold Max Power, GmaxxII and Deus; this is solved programmatically. Although these are primarily motion type detectors.
But what they brought in was the ability to constantly listen to iron and the ability to adjust the volume and presence of that sound. Completely independent of other sounds.
Ok, we can debate whether XP was the first to do this or we already have something similar with the Nautilus detector. But the fact is that XP has brought it to near perfection.
Even in those first years of appearance of Gold Max Power and Gmaxx, the advantage of these detectors over the others was immediately clear.
But the fact remains that these are motio-type detectors. And I would like all that, but in a non-motion version.

[ivconic]

I tend to mention the Cscope 1220B quite often. Because I worked with it for many years and I have very good memories.
Those were the "romantic" times when the fields were not explored and there were a lot of nice finds.
But in general, I think Cscope detectors are unfairly neglected on this forum.
And when it comes to non-motion detectors; at Cscope they have done a lot on the subject.
They have a series of very simple designs. And I think it was a bad decision, which affected the image of that company.
Because of the majority of such; somehow they lost their seriousness in the eyes of the public.
But they also have several very serious designs, whose commercial fate was threatened because of it.
Here I am looking through my archives on disks and I am reminded of some models again and again.
Unfortunately; I don't have a schematic of the model I'm interested in.
I mostly have schematics of the simplest models.
Cscope 1220XD is one of the models whose schematic I would like to have.
Or at least detailed photos of the pcb, good enough; so that accurate documentation could be reproduced with the help of those.
When I watch video demonstrations on Youtube; it seems to me that this detector is exactly what I would like to have, when it comes to a non-motion detector.
It has everything such a detector should have.
I don't know the current situation Cscope is in.
How is that company doing?
Does it survive.
Here I mean the hobby division first.
Because the industrial division should be doing well, they have top utility detectors and cover a good part of the industrial equipment and tools market.
1220XD is already an "old" detector today.
I don't think we would have done any damage to that company if we had done the reverse engineering and created the complete documentation.
If someone hasn't already done so.
If anyone has anything to contribute on that topic; here you go.

[Mario-j23]

for you

[Mario-j23]

1220B Repair manual

[ivconic]

I have all these for quite some time.
Thanks anyway!