complete project

[mschmahl]

Hello joop.
I have collected some information and schematics about the tinkerer PI.
This PI is a diskriminating PI with a lot of additional possibilities.
The main version with the basic functions is the tinkerer_SB in motion(MO) or non-motion(NM).

The coil is a induction balanced coil.
If i have understand it right, than these are the specs:
TX clockwise 240uH, AWG12 or AWG 14 for 4A peak coil current, 40 cm round coil
BU in series with TX coil, anticlockwise, about 12uH with the same wire, wound the same diameter how RX-Coil (but i don´t know this diameter)
RX wound centertaped on the BU-coil, AWG22, 300uH, wound the two halfes in the same direction.

Maybe tinkerer can look over it and add a few more details, or correct some specs.

[Tinkerer]

Hi Guys,

I am a bit lost with this project... What is the general idea? I see so many different schematics. Is there a complete collection somewhere, including coil description? If it is a discriminating PI I am surely interested in starting a build.

Thanks.

Right, this thread is a mess. Let's start a new thread just for the TINKERERS_SB_MO detector and another one for the TINKERERS_SB_NM detector.
Here we will continue talking about general aspects of the basic TINKERERS SIMPLE BASIC detector design.

The PSU and PIC is the same for both designs.

The coils are the same too.

The difference is that one is a MOTION DESIGN and the other one does not need any motion for functioning.

What size coil do you want? or need?

All the best

Tinkerer

[mschmahl]

Hello Tinkerer,
this is a good idea with two different threads. I think we should start with the 40 cm round coil.

Greetings
mschmahl

[joop]

Thanks mschmahl/Tinkerer... I would prefer a sticky post on top of this (sub)forum which shows the latest designs. Then close the thread so nobody can respond.

I am interested in building this design with a small coil, e.g 27 cm. or 11 inch. But I don't mind starting with 40 cm.

[Tinkerer]

Thanks mschmahl/Tinkerer... I would prefer a sticky post on top of this (sub)forum which shows the latest designs. Then close the thread so nobody can respond.

I am interested in building this design with a small coil, e.g 27 cm. or 11 inch. But I don't mind starting with 40 cm.

I got a 25cm coil in the works, so we can use this one as the coil building example.
25cm is the inner diameter of the TX coil winding, the winding thickness can be 1 to 2 cm, so the coil will end up with 28 or 29 cm diameter.

The RX coil is 10cm inner diameter.

We will go step by step in the coil building, with pictures, but most of all I will be explaining the calculations and parameters, so that anybody can then build their coils any size they feel like.

[Tinkerer]

Hello joop.
I have collected some information and schematics about the tinkerer PI.
This PI is a diskriminating PI with a lot of additional possibilities.
The main version with the basic functions is the tinkerer_SB in motion(MO) or non-motion(NM).

The coil is a induction balanced coil.
If i have understand it right, than these are the specs:
TX clockwise 240uH, AWG12 or AWG 14 for 4A peak coil current, 40 cm round coil
BU in series with TX coil, anticlockwise, about 12uH with the same wire, wound the same diameter how RX-Coil (but i don´t know this diameter)
RX wound centertaped on the BU-coil, AWG22, 300uH, wound the two halfes in the same direction.

Maybe tinkerer can look over it and add a few more details, or correct some specs.

mschmahl,

thank you for posting the information.

I need to look us where I posted the info for the 40cm coil. In your description, the amount of turns are missing.

With the Induction Balanced IBcoils, the number of turns is more important than the exact uH value. In fact you do not need to worry about an inductance meter.

What is important is the turns ratio between the TX coil and the Bucking coil. With half of the TX diameter, the Bucking coil diameter needs 4 times less turns.

We need full turns everywhere, so we must pick a turns numbers that fit the ratio. For example, TX=16 turns and BU=4 turns. Nevermind the exact uH, as this will be different on the type of wire, insulation and tightness of winding.

You could also use TX=20 turns and BU=5 turns, but you should stay somewhere near 300uH for the resonant frequency in combination with the Flyback capacitor.

If, for any reason your resonant frequency is way off, you may have to adjust the pulse timing by a us or so. I will show you how.

Using the miscel calculator, you look for air coils. to calculate the coils.

You can use a different diameter ratio between TX and BU coils. In this case you calculate the surface area of the 2 coils with the geometry calculator and use the ratio proportional to the relative surface areas.

Remember always to use full turns.

You can also make coils in square, rectangular or any shape using the geometry calculation, but you need to leave more leeway for fine adjustment. We will talk about the fine adjustments later.

For the cable from coils to board, you can use a cable that is more flexible and a little thinner, on the short distance the power losses are not so large. We will talk about the shielding later, but you should think of it from the beginning, when looking for a coil housing. If you already have a housing, you may have to design the coil to fit the housing.

Just ask, I will be glad to help.

The TINKERERS are really meant for community development, free in every way for everybody to copy and improve.

Any suggestion for improvement is most welcome.

All the best

Tinbkerer

[mschmahl]

Hello Tinkerer,
I have coil-housing in 25 cm outer diameter. But i think, such a little coil does not go to 50-60 cm deep Silvercoins. So i think 40 or 50 cm should be better for my need´s. Or is it not so?

[Tinkerer]

Hello Tinkerer,
I have coil-housing in 25 cm outer diameter. But i think, such a little coil does not go to 50-60 cm deep Silvercoins. So i think 40 or 50 cm should be better for my need´s. Or is it not so?

I would use a 50cm coil to search for these deep silver coins. If you do not have a housing, you can use a styrofoam base or just fiberglass the coil after precise inductance balancing.

[mschmahl]

So it will be a 50 cm Coil. I will built it similar to the tgsl-coil http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...887#post163887 here. Than coating it with fiberglass. For shielding: Do i have to shield the TX, RX and BU bundle seperately? What is with spacing between each bundle an shield? Or should i use graphit-paint on the completed coil before coating?

[Tinkerer]

So it will be a 50 cm Coil. I will built it similar to the tgsl-coil http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...887#post163887 here. Than coating it with fiberglass. For shielding: Do i have to shield the TX, RX and BU bundle seperately? What is with spacing between each bundle an shield? Or should i use graphit-paint on the completed coil before coating?

Remember that you will use a #12 or #14 wire for TX and BU. This will be a bit stiff to wind on a fragile core. It will need tying with string.

Graphite paint is OK. Make sure you get a good connection from graphite to ground. The spacing is not critical, as the TINKERERS is not sensitive to inter wire and wire to shield capacitance.

All leads coming and leaving the coils must be twisted to keep balance.

Test the coil induction balance before applying any glue. You should get about 25 to 50mV at the input of the pre-amp.

When You are ready for fine tuning the inductance balance I will give you some tips for it.

[Pete the Builder]

25cm coil sounds near-perfect, Tink. Bring on the photos!

I also prefer using separate threads from here on. We can divide our time more efficiently, perhaps!

Cheers,
PtB

[mschmahl]

The first parts have arrived me. So i can start with building soon.
@ tinkerer
Do i need some additional parts for the easy ground balance or is it done in software?
Do you have some pictures of coilbuilding? Especially from RX?
Thank´s a lot

Greetings from saxony

[mschmahl]

Tinkerer, thanks for the pictures http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...267#post166267.
Now all part´s for the Tinkerer_SB have arrived me. So I can built it.

[Tinkerer]

Tinkerer, thanks for the pictures http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...267#post166267.
Now all part´s for the Tinkerer_SB have arrived me. So I can built it.

Could you confirm or correct for me:

You want to build a 50cm outer diameter coil? About 48 inner diameter coil?

8AA batteries?

Targets TC, 10 to 200us = thin silver and gold coins at 40 to 50cm depth?

[mschmahl]

Yes, this is right. The outer diameter is not critical (50 or 52 cm no problem at all), because i will glue it on a plate made of "plexiglass"(don´t know the english word) and than coat it.
I want to use 1,5V AA batteries (2x4 batteries for the 2x6Volt in your schematic). But i could be more or 1,2 V rechargeable if it is better. Targets are the thin silver and big silver coins. If the gold coin isn´t in the area where the tinkerer work it´s no problem, because we don´t have a lot here.