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A surprising discovery today on 00- PI coil.

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  • A surprising discovery today on 00- PI coil.

    While trying to get my project coil working today I made a surprising discovery. My coil was not working at all on small gold or an American nickle. It would pick up a silver ring quite well. So I started by trying to alter inductance by changing the shapes of both the rx and the tx coils. I had a range for both coils that I knew were acceptable. In addition, I had 2 other variables that I could play with. 1) the coupling of the 2 coils, and 2) the dampening resistor value.

    On my detector, I have to turn it off for every adjustment or else it locks up, so this took quite a while. The results were that changing the resistor value between 1333 ohms and 2k ohms made no difference. Changing the inductance made some difference, but did not change the ability to pick up gold better like I had hoped. The big eye opener was changing the coupling of the rx and tx loops. Since my oscilloscope seems to be useless for me, I just went with trial and error. I finally got it to pick up smaller gold and the nickle fairly well. At this point my detector "chatters" or makes random noise unless I turn down the sensitivity. Raising the discrimination (or reducing the delay, I think) didn't reduce the noise.

    The real shocker was that at some point I could pick up the nickle/gold quite good while at the same time the silver ring I was using for testing diminished a lot. This was very surprising. I made me wonder if there is still hope for a gold only detector? Now, I was still picking up the silver ring but at only half the depth. I didn't think that was possible.

    Now, these were just bench air test without any shielding, so I have a ways to go. But at least I can pick up gold now and can start on making a case and sealing it up. I hope to shield with a 6K carbon twill. Not sure that will work but it will stiffen up my 46" long coil. I did test with the carbon laying across the top but it was not encased in resin so we'll see how that works.

    Click image for larger version

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    The photo is actually my first attempt that quit working when encased in hot glue. I just posted it so you can see about what it looks like. I wrapped new coils for this newest version.

  • #2
    hi mate, you should call you coil the "snow shoe", very interesting experiments by the way, maybe carl or george might be able to explain why the silver ring detection decreased as gold increased.
    i suppose it could be to do with the ring shape itself, but that's a straight guess.

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    • #3
      What surprises me is how well I could pick up the silver ring super deep when a large gold ring barely would signal and a nickel was not hitting at all. And then of course, when the silver really dropped in detection and the nickel and gold improved greatly. Strange.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by punagold View Post
        What surprises me is how well I could pick up the silver ring super deep when a large gold ring barely would signal and a nickel was not hitting at all. And then of course, when the silver really dropped in detection and the nickel and gold improved greatly. Strange.
        A Nickel has a short time constant, TC.
        Many gold alloys also have short TC's.
        A silver ring has a long TC and also has an ideal target shape.

        So what you did, is to tune your rig to either long or short TC targets.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by punagold View Post
          What surprises me is how well I could pick up the silver ring super deep when a large gold ring barely would signal and a nickel was not hitting at all. And then of course, when the silver really dropped in detection and the nickel and gold improved greatly. Strange.
          To investigate the actual mechanism involved, you really need to get a good scope connected to the circuit. At the moment you're more or less working blind.

          Also, the following information would be useful:
          1 ) Which PI detector are you using?
          2 ) Inductance of coil.
          2 ) Resistance of coil.
          4 ) Value of damping resistor.
          5 ) TX pulse rate
          6 ) TX pulse width
          7 ) Sample pulse delay.
          8 ) Sample pulse width.

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          • #6
            1) garrett ATX--multifrequency PI
            2) TX inductance 310, resistance .7, Rx inductance 530, resistance 9.3 (should be around 8.
            4) dampining resistors used: 1332 and 2000 ohms, sticking with 2000 just because on the stock (infinium) coils that work with the atx, the 7x10 uses a 680 ohm and the 10x14 uses a 1000 ohm. My coil is 3 time the size of the 10x14.
            5) As far as pulse rate and width, I cannot seem to get my oscilloscope to work correctly. On the TX, I keep getting warning that I am exceeding the range except on one setting, and there I cannot make sense of what it shows. To me it just shows around 48 volts and nothing else.

            7) Maybe you understand this and can explain. This is all new to me. Below is the RX without waving any metal. When I put metal near it still looks the same?


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