Wire exact name and type?

[ivconic]

I guess most of you have already seen this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA3aXkc6t64

In one moment Gifford guys are demonstrating the coil making.
And they mentioning a wire coated with "something" which is later soften by the influence of alcohol, so to windings constrain better and "glue" to each other.
So, i would like to see exact name of such wire? Exact model? Where i can obtain it and under what name and type?
It is tough for one (especially from non English spoken population) to find exact product on market abroad, not knowing exact info, name, type etc...

[ivconic]

"Glue on the wire..." says Gifford...
So it is wire with glue layer?
Name, type, manufacturer?

[bernte_one]

it is double laquered wire exact Name here is
http://www.elektrisola.com/de/backlackdraht.html
-baking laquer wire-
https://www.hifibau.de/425/mundorf-l...-backlackdraht
the common magnet wire has one coating for Isolation

the other type has two coatings
the first ist the standard which is not solve able in alcohol and the second layer is a type of laquer which can be solved a bit by alcohol

the glue function is activaded by alcohol or heating or both together (laqur is solved and later baked out and alcohol removes faster)


http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kupferdraht-B...kAAOSwHjNWAW9F

[ivconic]

it is double laquered wire exact Name here is
http://www.elektrisola.com/de/backlackdraht.html
-baking laquer wire-
https://www.hifibau.de/425/mundorf-l...-backlackdraht
the common magnet wire has one coating for Isolation

the other type has two coatings
the first ist the standard which is not solve able in alcohol and the second layer is a type of laquer which can be solved a bit by alcohol

the glue function is activaded by alcohol or heating or both together (laqur is solved and later baked out and alcohol removes faster)


http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kupferdraht-B...kAAOSwHjNWAW9F

Thanks Bernte!
So the proper term is "self-bonded" wire!
That's what i was looking for!

[Carl-NC]

Yes, bondable wire. Bondeze is one trade name. Gifford runs the wire over a wick that is saturated with alcohol which softens the bonding agent. You then need to bake the coil in an oven to get all the alcohol out, especially for densely wound RX coils. If you don't, they'll continue to outgas over time and possibly move around. Besides alcohol bonding, you can also run a current through the coil and heat up the bonding agent. The advantage of this is it's faster and doesn't require a baking step.

[Skippy]

I'm very familiar with self-bond wire, always using heat-bonding by passing high current through the winding. But is ALL self-bond wire solvent-activatible as well? I had always assumed it was a different type of coating, after all, melting and dissolving are different processes.

[Altra]

Hi Skippy,

Here is a brand I have used in the past. In the chart they show the solvent and the melting temperature of the insulation.

http://www.mwswire.com/magnetwire_bondable.html

[Skippy]

As I suspected, it's not all suitable for solvent-bonding. And MEK is needed for some, which is pretty strong stuff.

[ivconic]

Yes, bondable wire. Bondeze is one trade name. Gifford runs the wire over a wick that is saturated with alcohol which softens the bonding agent. You then need to bake the coil in an oven to get all the alcohol out, especially for densely wound RX coils. If you don't, they'll continue to outgas over time and possibly move around. Besides alcohol bonding, you can also run a current through the coil and heat up the bonding agent. The advantage of this is it's faster and doesn't require a baking step.

That's actually more interesting method than "baking"!
Only one question more; how to precisely know amount of current and voltage, to avoid destruction and burning?

[ivconic]

I'm very familiar with self-bond wire, always using heat-bonding by passing high current through the winding. But is ALL self-bond wire solvent-activatible as well? I had always assumed it was a different type of coating, after all, melting and dissolving are different processes.

Same question for you too;
"That's actually more interesting method than "baking"!
Only one question more; how to precisely know amount of current and voltage, to avoid destruction and burning?"

[ivconic]

As I suspected, it's not all suitable for solvent-bonding. And MEK is needed for some, which is pretty strong stuff.

??

Polyvinyl Butyral

Alcohol

110 - 140

105

How come?
First on the list seem is suitable?

[Carl-NC]

All of the alcohol-bonded wire I've seen can also be heat-bonded. Here at FT, we use the same wire with both processes.

With heat bonding, you have to get just the right current to get the temperature you want, then hold it there just long enough to activate the bond. It's all trial-and-error.

[Skippy]

Quote:"how to precisely know amount of current and voltage, to avoid destruction and burning?"
Answer: Experience, physics, and trial and error. If you start off with low currents and times, you can always increase them. And you can measure the temperature produced with a thermocouple probe, or those colour-changing sticky labels:
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/101356
Generally, the more mass you have to heat up, the longer you need to apply the heat. Basic physics can let you estimate the amount of energy needed to raise the winding temperature, and some experiments on short lengths of wire can help you work out the resistance , so you can judge how many volts to apply.,how many watts this produces. There are tables of wire resistance versus temperature, if you look.
I believe in mass-production, some control is used, such as soft-start, maybe?, as the wire resistance can change quite a bit.

And regarding the solvent, you obviously need to carefully choose your wire - I wouldn't recommend using MEK in a non-industrial environment.

[ivconic]

I see.
It ends up to trial and error.
Adjustable current/voltage source will be suitable for such task.

[Altra]

I have done both ways and I tell you for small production or hobby work "resistance" bonding is a waste of time. You need metal coil formers, not plastic or wood. For each size coil, wire guage you need to determine the perfect current and application time. You have to strip the magnet wire on the former so that you can apply the current. You waste a lot of wire getting it right. I am sure the big companies have it down to a science.

For small quanities, it is easier to use the alcohol bond (Polyvinyl Butyral). For one off coils, soak a small paper towel in methenal alcohol and pinch the magnet wire with the soaked towel as you wind the coil. If you are not in a hurry no oven is needed. Just lay the coil on a flat service for 24 to 36 hours. You can also use roller wheels to guide the wire through a bath of alcohol or across a wick. The Tesoro video was interesting, because I think they were using an aquirum air pump and air stone to create a mist of alcohol that the wire passes through.