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  • #16
    Accurately Calculating Coil Inductance

    1843, Geo and all

    Coil inductance is one of the most difficult calculations to accurately make for the following reasons.

    1. The insulation thickness changes the spacing of the wire. Wire that is closer together (thinner insulation) will have higher inductance.

    2. The dielectric constant of the insulation will have a slight effect on the inductance.

    3. The frequency of the LC meter at which the inductance measurements are made can affect the accuracy of the results.

    Go to the following web site and do the following.
    http://my.athenet.net/~multiplx/cgi-bin/airind.main.cgi

    I simply enter the Inside Diameter (ID) of my coil as the coil diameter.
    I enter the number of coil turns.
    I enter the wire bundle diameter as the coil length.

    Here is a quick way to measure the wire bundle diameter.

    You don't even need to cut your wire to do this.

    Let's assume that you want to make 30 turn coil. Wind 15 turns of the same wire around your hand. You will have a small coil of wire. Squeeze it together in the center and place two wraps of electrcal tape around it pulling the wire bundle tight. Measure the diameter of the 15 turn coil which will have 30 strands in the center under the electrical tape. Measure the diameter of the wire bundle and subtract 4 thicknesses of tape from your answer. Enter this number into the coil calculator as the coil length.

    Use the 1% answer.

    Your coil will be very close to this calculated value.

    I use the LC Meter IIB from Almost All Digital Electronics. See my review of this meter kit below with web link to the web site where details of this meter and the assembly instructions are available.

    http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?t=11102

    I have purchased commercial coils from 100 uH to 300 uH and even have a 500 uH standard inductor. This meter is right on the values marked on these components within less than 5%. This meter tracks very closly with my commercial Tektronix model 130 LC meter.

    After proving that the LC IIB works very well, I removed the Tektronix model 130 LC meter from my bench and no longer use it. The model 130 only goes up to 300 uH and requires putting a known value inductor in parallel with an inductor larger than 300 uH and go to an "S" shaped graph chart to interpet the larger inductor value. This is not very convenient for making coils.

    After winding nearly 100 coils, I see no reason to do anything other than enter the numbers the way I described above and make my coil to the desired value.

    When you add a coil shield, the coil inductance will go up about 5%.

    When I take a round 10.5 inch ID coil that is 355 uH and squeeze it into a long, narrow oval coil that is 3 inches wide, the inductance drops to 310 uH.

    So, changing the coil shape does change the inductance, within some limits, about 10% lower as noted from the above numbers. The narrower the coil is squeezed, the lower the inductance will go but not any lower than about 305 uH with the coil squeezed down to 1" wide.

    I hope this helps.

    bbsailor

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    • #17
      Thanks for the advice bbsailor.

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      • #18
        BBSailor I have tryed to access the coil bundle calculator from your link and from your article on " Making a Fast Pulse Induction Mono Coil." but it comes up with No file found! I am following your steps to make coils to suit Minelab Gp3500 at present working on a 28 x 18 eliptical . The calculator sayes it should be 340.390799 uH 12 turns x 573 mm id x bundle Diam 2,55 mm my inductance with 2 layers of PE insulation with 30 AWG Teflon wire is 280 uH this is with a new LC Multimeter in the pipeline are a 10 x 5 , 15 x 10 , 18 x 12, and a 22.5 x 15 I have imported the Teflon wire and PE spiral wrap from the States as proquring it in South Australia proved imposible I only have to arange the shielding now what I got is seen by the coil at about 4 inches I will try to get the Scotch 24 any help would be appreciated. Regards IBGold.

        Comment


        • #19
          BBSailor I have tryed to access the coil bundle calculator from your link and from your article on " Making a Fast Pulse Induction Mono Coil." but it comes up with No file found! I am following your steps to make coils to suit Minelab Gp3500 at present working on a 28 x 18 eliptical . The calculator sayes it should be 340.390799 uH 12 turns x 573 mm id x bundle Diam 2,55 mm my inductance with 2 layers of PE insulation with 30 AWG Teflon wire is 280 uH this is with a new LC Multimeter in the pipeline are a 10 x 5 , 15 x 10 , 18 x 12, and a 22.5 x 15 I have imported the Teflon wire and PE spiral wrap from the States as proquring it in South Australia proved imposible I only have to arange the shielding now what I got is seen by the coil at about 4 inches I will try to get the Scotch 24 any help would be appreciated. Regards IBGold.

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          • #20
            Wire Bundle Multiplication Factor

            Sorry for the late answer.

            Go to the web link below, page 21 of the pdf file. The chart is located there.

            http://www.tycoelectronics.com/indus...4025_Sec06.pdf


            Here is how to visualize the wire bundle size in relation to a single strand. Place 7 coins of the same size on a table. Place one in the center and six around the center coin. The wire bundle diameter will be 3 times the diameter of a single strand outside diameter. For a 19 wire bundle the multiplication factor will be 5 and for 37 turns it will be 7. The chart shows the wire bundle size from 1 strand to 61 strands with fractional multipliers for wire bundles in between the examples noted above.

            When making coils to fit a coil housing, you must allow enough room for the wire bundle to expand from the inside diameter of the coil form and enough additional room for the spiralwrap shield spacer and the shield.

            bbsailor

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            • #21
              Thanks BBsailor have printed it of for later use. Regards IBGold.

              Comment


              • #22
                coil turns

                bbsailor : Can I wind a coil with say 18 1/2 turns to get the correct inductance I am finding I have to add approx 1 turn to amount calculated and when I colapse the round to form the elipse it lowers the inductance by about 12 to 15 % well im learning. Regards IBGold

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                • #23
                  IBGold

                  No need to worry about fractional turns. Make it either 18 turns or 19 turns.
                  It is more convenient that the coil leads exit in a convenient place than the coil having an exact inductance. A plus or minus one turn will not do much except if you are going for a very low delay below 6us.

                  Adding the shield also increases the total inductance by about 10 to 15 uH.
                  See my article.

                  bbsailor

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Coil inductance

                    bbsailor what is the optimum coil inductance and coil self resonance in relation to Minelab detectors as usual I am after the ultimate I am using multi strand teflon wire and PE insulation and am trying to get a supply of Scotch 24 for sheilding I am awaiting an email from 3M. I have tried Lesemf's Ni/Cu tape similar to the 3M 1190 but it is detected from about 5 inches by a 10 inch coil where as wire mesh is only detected at about 2 inches so I believe the Ni/Cu tape would affect the coils sensitivity am I correct and am I on the right track again thank you for your help. Regards IBGold [ South Australia.]

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                    • #25
                      Scotch 24 shielding mesh tape

                      IBGold

                      Look on ebay for Scotch 24. Sometimes you will find it there.

                      I don't have a minelab PI detector so I can only speculate about my answer but this is a good coil duplication engineering practice. Match the coil resistance and inductance as close as possible. To do this you will need an Ohmmeter to accurately read the coil resistance, an LC meter to read the coil inductance and a wire table to figure out the size of the coil wire.

                      Here is a little trick for adding the Scotch 24 shield. Scotch 24 is actually a mesh that open up into a tube that has a 2" circumference. You can open up the tubular shield by placing a small plastic pipe inside of it and use an X-acto knife and a straight edge to slice it lengthwise. You will then get 2 pieces 1" wide. Just cut it a few inches longer than the coil circumference to ensure a complete fit. Make sure you have the necessary shield gap. If your coil and shield bundle is about .3" in diameter than a 1" width of Scotch 24 will just make a complete wrap over the coil wire bundle. Use another layer of .25" PE spiralwrap to hold the Scotch 24 in place. Just solder a short 4" to 5" ground lead, lengthwise, on one end of the Scotch 24 mesh shield before you start to add the shield.

                      The best shield material is that which is not detected or only minimally detected at the lowest delay that you want to use in the field.

                      bbsailor

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        My Minelab Mono,s measure between 300 uH to 320 uH and about 5.8 ohms the DD,s tx coils between 256uH to 330 uh. Mine with PE as your artical no shield but eliptical form are as follows 10 x 5 =300 uh 15 x 10 = 320 uh a bit to high I feel and the 28 x 18 = 270 uH. I added Ni/Cu shield tape today to the 10 x 5 and it did not change the inductance more than 2 uh your comments would be helpfull still trying to source Scotch 24, 3M Aust. gave me a name but he does not stock it so the ball is back in their court no luck on Ebay either thanks again for the help. regards IBGold

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Sorry I doubled up.
                          Last edited by IBGold; 05-16-2007, 05:50 AM. Reason: doubled up

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                          • #28
                            My Minelab Mono,s measure between 300 uH to 320 uH and about 5.8 ohms the DD,s tx coils between 256uH to 330 uh. Mine with PE as your artical no shield but eliptical form are as follows 10 x 5 =300 uh 15 x 10 = 320 uh a bit to high I feel and the 28 x 18 = 270 uH. I added Ni/Cu shield tape today to the 10 x 5 and it did not change the inductance more than 2 uh your comments would be helpfull still trying to source Scotch 24, 3M Aust. gave me a name but he does not stock it so the ball is back in their court no luck on Ebay either thanks again for the help. regards IBGold

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Square Coils

                              Dear BBsailor
                              Thank u very much for ur helps on this forum.I made a DP,but I have some questions.pls
                              guide me:
                              1-For square coils(40*40,60*60 and 100*100cm),what is exact number of round and wire
                              diameter for each one?(I am searching for medium size objects over 4 ft depth)and must
                              coils had sheild and enamel?
                              2-How can i connect microAmper meter and headphone to DP togather?
                              can i connect to SPK point?
                              thanks again and goodluck

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Square coils are not recommended.

                                I can not recommend square coils. They are inefficient.
                                Try to understand, why the nature is allways producing PI (3.141592654).

                                Coils should allways be circles. Any mismatch to a exact circle will cause inefficiency. Even the elliptical coils are not recommended. This is the result of 15 years experience and making dozends of coils. Even computer simulations shows the inefficiency of such coils.

                                Trust me!

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