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  • two box for spectra

    Hello,

    Al as Jim in Idaho​ as planning to do for his whites 6000 i made a two box system for my spectra v3i. Or in fact im trying to reproduce the two box for my spectra v3i i have.

    in order not to pollute his topic I decided to open a topic myself.

    In the past I have made many coils from pulse industry to simple coils for garrett ace etc, they always worked fine or I get them working properly.

    But I have a lot of problems with getting my spectra to work properly.

    What I did: I made two 13 inch coils the tx and the rx very close to the values ​​of the original dd coils for spectra.

    The problem I have: the detector performance is good, the depth and response are there. Only the problems I keep having are: when I move the detector up or down I get a signal from the ground. It seems that the detector can not make a good ground balance.

    I have tried placing the RX coil at different angles on the detector this has little to no effect. When I try this with the two box spectra that I already have (built by someone else) putting the coil at a different angle has no effect on the up and down movement of the detector, at least there is no signal like the detector does with coils that I have built.

    In the concentric coils there is also a CX coil, I have not used this, could this possibly cause the problem?

    Or perhaps problems with the shielding? I have built this as follows: I have sprayed a layer of graphite in the housing, attached a ground wire, laid in the windings, then half of the coil is poured with epoxy, another layer of graphite and attached the ground wire to that and another layer of epoxy as a finish.

    I hope that there are people who can help me a bit further on my way, try to keep your description as simple as possible, I do not have an electro technical background so I will not know some concepts directly. I am an amateur who has learned something by building and making a lot of mistakes. And I'm building this project to increase my technical skill (at least try)​

  • #2
    Originally posted by stefan-s View Post
    Hello,

    Al as Jim in Idaho​ as planning to do for his whites 6000 i made a two box system for my spectra v3i. Or in fact im trying to reproduce the two box for my spectra v3i i have.

    in order not to pollute his topic I decided to open a topic myself.

    In the past I have made many coils from pulse industry to simple coils for garrett ace etc, they always worked fine or I get them working properly.

    But I have a lot of problems with getting my spectra to work properly.

    What I did: I made two 13 inch coils the tx and the rx very close to the values ​​of the original dd coils for spectra.

    The problem I have: the detector performance is good, the depth and response are there. Only the problems I keep having are: when I move the detector up or down I get a signal from the ground. It seems that the detector can not make a good ground balance.

    I have tried placing the RX coil at different angles on the detector this has little to no effect. When I try this with the two box spectra that I already have (built by someone else) putting the coil at a different angle has no effect on the up and down movement of the detector, at least there is no signal like the detector does with coils that I have built.

    In the concentric coils there is also a CX coil, I have not used this, could this possibly cause the problem?

    Or perhaps problems with the shielding? I have built this as follows: I have sprayed a layer of graphite in the housing, attached a ground wire, laid in the windings, then half of the coil is poured with epoxy, another layer of graphite and attached the ground wire to that and another layer of epoxy as a finish.

    I hope that there are people who can help me a bit further on my way, try to keep your description as simple as possible, I do not have an electro technical background so I will not know some concepts directly. I am an amateur who has learned something by building and making a lot of mistakes. And I'm building this project to increase my technical skill (at least try)​
    Stefan, I can't help with much but the simple things....I just don't have the education level. I, too, have built other coils, but only mono coils for pulse detectors. Since you have accomplished the two-box for other detectors, I assume the issue is with the V3i. I have more questions. Are you running the V3i in multi-frquency mode? if so, maybe try a single frequency. Or, try all 3 as single frequencies. Maybe the fact the V3i can run several different frequencies requires a more complex coil, that doesn't suit using it as a two-box? Wish i could help more. Pita may have the answer, but needs to explain how to accomplish, with the V3i, what he suggested.
    Jim

    Comment


    • #3
      I run in in one frequency the lowest when im correct this is 2,5khz? (log time ago when i used the detector) with the coils that someone else build it works good in all frequency's. So that's not the problem, i think i did something wrong in the build possess.

      Comment


      • #4
        You don't need the bucking coil.
        It sounds like it is not ground balanced. Did you connect the RX coil backward?

        Comment


        • #5
          `
          Originally posted by Carl-NC View Post
          You don't need the bucking coil.
          It sounds like it is not ground balanced. Did you connect the RX coil backward?
          I guess you mean on the back side of the detector? No i didn't. rx horizontal coil on the front, tx vertical coil on the back.

          Comment


          • #6
            I was talking about the polarity of the coil wiring. There are 2 wires, so two ways to connect it.

            But it sound like you have the coil placement backwards. TX is vertical at the rear, RX horizontal at the front.

            Click image for larger version

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            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Carl-NC View Post
              I was talking about the polarity of the coil wiring. There are 2 wires, so two ways to connect it.

              But it sound like you have the coil placement backwards. TX is vertical at the rear, RX horizontal at the front.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	27.5 KB ID:	428512
              Yes thats exactly what i did, tx on the back with: 0.55mH 3.0 ohm rx on the front with 12,8 mH and 30.6 ohm

              When i switch the wires on the rx site than there is no signal ad all also not from metal. For example when i switch them on the tx or put them back in the previous position on the rx there is signal again.

              Comment


              • #8
                OK, sounds like the coils were right. Have you tried to manually ground balance?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I described to you how to check the shielding, what are the results? I also described the principle of ground tuning, maybe in the spectrum the phase shift is limited, I mean it is not 360 degrees. Show the LCD image when you select ground balancing/tuning in the menu for the original coils and for the coils made by you.
                  all also not from metal = strange, schematic of the spectra will help. Connect oscilloscope to Rx wires, with normal and reverse wires, is there a response to metal in both cases ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ground trucking offset = play with that, do numbers are changing from 0 to 360?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Carl-NC View Post
                      OK, sounds like the coils were right. Have you tried to manually ground balance?
                      Yes i tested that as well, it also does not make any difference.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pito View Post
                        I described to you how to check the shielding, what are the results? I also described the principle of ground tuning, maybe in the spectrum the phase shift is limited, I mean it is not 360 degrees. Show the LCD image when you select ground balancing/tuning in the menu for the original coils and for the coils made by you.
                        all also not from metal = strange, schematic of the spectra will help. Connect oscilloscope to Rx wires, with normal and reverse wires, is there a response to metal in both cases ?
                        I need to test these things i hope i have some time next week.

                        I don't have a scope btw, doe you have some tips for a affordable one.?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't have a scope btw, doe you have some tips for a affordable one.? = https://www.zeitnitz.eu/Scope_en

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pito View Post
                            I don't have a scope btw, doe you have some tips for a affordable one.? = https://www.zeitnitz.eu/Scope_en
                            Thanks, but what kind of leads do i need for that one? I see it's working trough the sound card so probably there need to be some electronics build?


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Stefan,
                              Are you certain your epoxy hasn't reduced the effectiveness of your shielding layer?

                              Epoxy completely kills the graphite paint I use, so I paint over the graphite paint with ABS dissolved in acetone before adding the resin layer a day or so later, depending on plastic thickness.

                              The ABS plastic layer increases the shielding impedance by around 2x

                              I guess if the machine doesn't respond to your hand on the RX coil then the above is not the issue.
                              Cheers
                              Kev.

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