Halo Effect - WTF !!!!

[Max]

The "halo effect" was invented by Fisher to sell his early detectors. The only time a non-ferrous object develops a significant halo is when it is in extremely corrosive ground. Ferrous objects develop halos, but the halos cancel out the objects.

Hi Elie,
yes you are right on advertising. I think many people said it exist and develops fast cause of just advertising of old products that otherwise they cannot sell to anyone anymore.

But I don't rely on advertising. You know.

I've seen it with my eyes... that's why I'm sure of that it exist.

Cannot explain why... have just some ideas.

Of course, happened to me not with few years buried stuff... like manifacturers say... no, no....
just with very ancient stuff , only with that stuff and not always.

Kind regards,
Max

[Unregistered]

The "halo effect" was invented by Fisher to sell his early detectors. The only time a non-ferrous object develops a significant halo is when it is in extremely corrosive ground. Ferrous objects develop halos, but the halos cancel out the objects.

Non ferrous objects can not create any kind of halo detectable by any metal detector. Coins can produce in most cases non conductive oxides as the ones on their very surface.
Any oxides or salts produced by galvanic processes or decomposition are first of all too insufficient to provide path for Eddy currents. Even if some conductivity could be registered around any coin under ground that area would be too deep for any detector to pick up a signal, providing that the halo is getting detection depth further down.
The case with the iron.
Iron is not only electrically conductive, but also magnetic material. In the process of physical decomposition the small iron particles or iron oxides will increase the paramagnetic properties of the soil, but they will not alter the soil conductivity. Take a ferrite ring for example. All detectors can pick a ferrite ring but non of all ferrite rings are conductive, they are paramagnetic. A significant number of small iron particles can create around a nail (for example) a zone with stronger paramagnetic properties, which in all cases will result in lower negative phase shift in the RX compared to the clear soil.
That is how halo effect can occur naturally around any iron object.
Around non ferrous objects halo effect is impossible to occur, because they are not magnetic or paramagnetic and halo is not a result of conductivity but result of paramagnetism.

I would advise anyone interested in halo theory to study a bit of physics and chemistry before making guess shots unless they have a lot of time to waist.

[J_Player]

I have studied physics and chemistry too. I know no reason why there would be any "halo effect".

But this makes me wonder why not only Ivconic and Max are reporting that the signal becomes smaller in air after they dig up ancient non-ferrous coins. There are people all over the world reporting the same as they do.

Do you have any science that explains what hundreds of people experienced all over the world? Or are tehy all liars?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Great_Alex]

you try to prove your wrong idea without any test and experience
The Halo effect for ancient target or old buried target realy exist

after dig and in the air test signals become very weak .
on the devices like OKM products , it can detect old buried gold but can't detect fresh gold (like a Magnometer) .
PI detectors detects targets very deeper than normal , maybe many times deeper but making pinpoint vary hard .

the reason of halo effect changing the magnetic filed of soil around the object and produce secondary magnetic field with diffrent direction with earth magnetic field ( in the object) and make disturbance in normal magnetic fileds power in positive (like iron) or negative (like gold) direction .
the magnetic filed around the objects changes by Magnetic Susceptibility of object , if target turned the socondary em field become weaker and you see hlo effect reduced .

Best regards
Alex

[J_Player]

I agree field experience and testing is stronger than theory from science. I am asking people with scientific theories to show scientific reasons why hundreds of people find signal weaker after digging ancient coins from the ground.

I think there is no science to prove all these people are liars. Maybe if scientists look closer at real experience in the field, then they will discover the real science why people see strong signal for long time buried non-ferrous metal.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Hi,
I don't want sell anything... I'm not a manifacturer...don't belong to any MD industry...I'm not interested if you "Unregistered" belive or not in "halo" effect for ancient buried non-ferrous items.
This is one thing that anyone couldn't give you proofs by now... so if you don't see it with your eyes you wouldn't belive it exist.

Same happened to me, before I saw it.
I didn't want belive it to exist before I've seen with my eyes the strange phenomenon. Then I've changed idea about.

When manifacturers claim that halo develops in few years... around non-ferrous objects they are, for me, my experience, actually lying: I never saw anything like that... few years buried e.g. copper item and halo effect, NEVER.
For me is pure BS to sell poor depth detectors anyone wouldn't buy otherwise.

What to say... at the end... and for many people change few if it exist or not !

Best regards,
Max

[Great_Alex]

Hey max,JP

i believe you . i have struggle with some bigger problem : moving treasures in the ground
if i didn't see with my eyes i never believe that .
but about halo effect it's very good stuff always make my work very easy , i love that , i don't care that what they think about it cause it's realy exist ,it's not limit to halo effect when you rech near a big treasure the soil become hot !,....

best regards
Alex

[Max]

Hey max,JP

i believe you . i have struggle with some bigger problem : moving treasures in the ground
if i didn't see with my eyes i never believe that .
but about halo effect it's very good stuff always make my work very easy , i love that , i don't care that what they think about it cause it's realy exist ,it's not limit to halo effect when you rech near a big treasure the soil become hot !,....

best regards
Alex

Hi Great_Alex,
I know it exist. Right, soil become "hot" sometimes.

I post here two small and no-value pieces of ancient metals that showed halo on my VLF some years ago, just to give them an idea of what I mean for ancient metals. I'm sure you understand me, but maybe they don't so I have to show to make them understand what we are talking about...here

2 from my mistery collection!

First piece, at left of the coin, is a scrap of copper rusty and in a strange way too... I scraped the surface to see some red-copper color.

Second piece, on the right, is hammered bronze, maybe the lower part of a small nail.

Objects were found in a undisturbed soil layer with dating (by local university and others) of about 2600years old.

1st piece showed the strongest "halo" : found it at 4-5cm out of maximum range I then measured in air.

2nd piece (bronze) just at 2-3 cm more than max in-air range.

My hypotesis is that 1st piece, copper, showed a great halo due to shape not composition, but I'm not sure of that.

Best regards,
Max

[papaTJeeper]

"Halo/Schmalo"

Halo "effect" on non ferrous targets is right up there with see-through, hot & cold detectors of the same brand/model and a few other myths concocted by dealers or mfgs. to sell detectors. The laws of physics dictate the operation of all detectors, and the electronics inside the control housing dictate how the target information from the coil is processed.

As to the detection or lack there of when the target is "air tested" consider the fact that the detector isn't and can't be balanced to an air matrix, so the matrix is different than soil, therefore the apparent detection depth is changed.

IMHO and through conducting extensive experiments, on non ferrous targets, no halo exists that will aid your detector to detect said target at greater depths. Just because the soil around the target is different, the only area that eddy current can or does exist is in the "skin" of the target.

Ty

[Qiaozhi]

There is no scientific evidence for the existence of a halo around longtime buried nonferrous objects. However, in practice there are many reported cases of items being detected at depths greater than they can be detected in an air test. I (like others on this forum) have also experienced this phenomenon. So what's going on?

IMHO it appears to me that the halo effect does not actually exist for nonferrous objects. What is most likely happening (in simple words) is that some deep targets are located in an area of soil that has some different properties than the surrounding area. This anomaly is sufficient to "boost" the phase shift in the target's signal, thus having the effect of making it more easily detectable. The anomaly itself is quite weak and would probably not be detectable on it's own. Replacing the target in the hole still leaves it undetectable, because the soil matrix has been disturbed and the anomaly effectively destroyed. In other words, digging up the object destroys the anomaly, and therefore any hope of restoring the "halo" effect, which actually didn't exist in the first place.

As is usually the case, you should always look for the simplest solution. Remember Occam's Razor.

[J_Player]

Perhaps an experiment could be done when hunting in locations where very ancient halo targets are expected. Suppose we located a target that we suspect has halo effect. Instead of dig this target, dig a hole to the side of the target. Then after you are deeper than the target, tunnel below it and recover it from below, while disturbing the soil above as little as possible. Then make your air test to see if it is less than the ground test was. If the air test is less distance, then return the target via the tunnel below and compact the same soil into the tunnel. Now test again for the ground signal strength. Find out if the halo effect was restored when the target was replaced without disturbing the ground above it.

Maybe this procedure will show the halo remains if the soil above and around the target is not disturbed. I think maybe there is a 20% chance this method might leave the halo intact.

I also have a stronger feeling the target will lose whatever is causing halo when the surface of the target is moved from the soil contact. perhaps it would be good to carefully dig a target to include the undisturbed soil around it maybe 10 cm spherical radius, and make tests of this soil sample in air with the undisturbed target inside. Then remove all except the last 2 cm of soil and test in air again. Then finally the target alone. Maybe this will give some information that helps to understand the mechanism.

A third, simpler kind of test could be tried by digging the target normally, but stop every 5 cm while digging to test the signal strength again. This would give you a measurable chart showing how the halo disappeared as you dig while holding the coil at the same height as before digging. You may find there is a certain proximity to the coin where the removal of soil makes a big difference.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Unregistered]

I have studied physics and chemistry too. I know no reason why there would be any "halo effect".

But this makes me wonder why not only Ivconic and Max are reporting that the signal becomes smaller in air after they dig up ancient non-ferrous coins. There are people all over the world reporting the same as they do.

Do you have any science that explains what hundreds of people experienced all over the world? Or are tehy all liars?


Best wishes,
J_P

No, they are not all liars. They are simply mistaken and some of them are definitely liars. I would say that if all of those people were possible to get close examination on the way they recover targets from the ground that would give the best answer for the halo illusion.
The general rule is that all detectors can detect any target further in air than deeper under ground.
At least one of the halo guys have to demonstrate a way of enhancing a non ferrous signal in air, then I will consider that there could be a chanse of that halo to occur under ground.
But unlesss a new law of phisycs is discovered I do not see any chanse for the halo to prevail.

All best.

[Unregistered]

Perhaps an experiment could be done when hunting in locations where very ancient halo targets are expected. Suppose we located a target that we suspect has halo effect. Instead of dig this target, dig a hole to the side of the target. Then after you are deeper than the target, tunnel below it and recover it from below, while disturbing the soil above as little as possible. Then make your air test to see if it is less than the ground test was. If the air test is less distance, then return the target via the tunnel below and compact the same soil into the tunnel. Now test again for the ground signal strength. Find out if the halo effect was restored when the target was replaced without disturbing the ground above it.

Maybe this procedure will show the halo remains if the soil above and around the target is not disturbed. I think maybe there is a 20% chance this method might leave the halo intact.

I also have a stronger feeling the target will lose whatever is causing halo when the surface of the target is moved from the soil contact. perhaps it would be good to carefully dig a target to include the undisturbed soil around it maybe 10 cm spherical radius, and make tests of this soil sample in air with the undisturbed target inside. Then remove all except the last 2 cm of soil and test in air again. Then finally the target alone. Maybe this will give some information that helps to understand the mechanism.

A third, simpler kind of test could be tried by digging the target normally, but stop every 5 cm while digging to test the signal strength again. This would give you a measurable chart showing how the halo disappeared as you dig while holding the coil at the same height as before digging. You may find there is a certain proximity to the coin where the removal of soil makes a big difference.

Best wishes,
J_P

How about diggin the non ferrous target cm by cm untill is accurately recovered. Then will see about "deeper" underground halo results.

[Qiaozhi]

Perhaps an experiment could be done when hunting in locations where very ancient halo targets are expected. Suppose we located a target that we suspect has halo effect. Instead of dig this target, dig a hole to the side of the target. Then after you are deeper than the target, tunnel below it and recover it from below, while disturbing the soil above as little as possible. Then make your air test to see if it is less than the ground test was. If the air test is less distance, then return the target via the tunnel below and compact the same soil into the tunnel. Now test again for the ground signal strength. Find out if the halo effect was restored when the target was replaced without disturbing the ground above it.

Maybe this procedure will show the halo remains if the soil above and around the target is not disturbed. I think maybe there is a 20% chance this method might leave the halo intact.

I also have a stronger feeling the target will lose whatever is causing halo when the surface of the target is moved from the soil contact. perhaps it would be good to carefully dig a target to include the undisturbed soil around it maybe 10 cm spherical radius, and make tests of this soil sample in air with the undisturbed target inside. Then remove all except the last 2 cm of soil and test in air again. Then finally the target alone. Maybe this will give some information that helps to understand the mechanism.

A third, simpler kind of test could be tried by digging the target normally, but stop every 5 cm while digging to test the signal strength again. This would give you a measurable chart showing how the halo disappeared as you dig while holding the coil at the same height as before digging. You may find there is a certain proximity to the coin where the removal of soil makes a big difference.

Best wishes,
J_P

An alternative experiment would be to artificially create a ground anomaly that causes a few degrees of positive phase shift. Then perform some tests detecting the target in a hole with and without the anomaly. It may even be possible to do this as an air test.

[J_Player]

unlesss a new law of phisycs is discovered I do not see any chanse for the halo to prevail.

The halo does not prevail. It is only a phenomena that many people report they have experienced.

My suggestion is there is no new law of physics to explain this experience. My opinion is the reason physics has not explained what people are reporting is because scientists have not examined this halo happening in close enough detail. I believe if scientists conducted very detailed tests to examine some actual field experience of targets showing a weaker signal after being recovered, then they will probably find there is a simple explanation to describe why people experience this happening.

It seems to me the difficulty that prevents scientists from making a detailed study is nobody knows for certain where there is a target that will demonstrate halo principle until after the target is removed from the ground. The problem for the scientist is to design some testing methods that will allow measuring changes in the physical properties of the target as well as in the soil during the process of recovering the target. This is why I suggested a few simple test methods that might help. Maybe there are better test methods that can show what changes to cause a target signal to decrease when it is recovered and measured in the air.

I think artificially prepared soil samples would be suspect because they do not represent actual real world halo conditions as reported by people who experience halo. But artificial soil samples still could give some good information that might help solve the mystery.

Best wishes,
J_P