Halo Effect - WTF !!!!

[DRAKOS]

Hi friends
From personal experience, can tell you that halo effect exists.
No new physics law, no upper mathematics.
Only deep knowledge of the existing laws. And there is no need of ancient buried metal. A few year buried , copper water pipe, is good enough. Try it with a spectrum analyzer, think of the results and everything is clear. Can’t tell you the reason, it’s my secret, but you ‘ll see the halo effect in numbers with your own eyes.
No soil effect, no magic, pure physics. But think, think deep.

[simonbaker]

There is no scientific evidence for the existence of a halo around longtime buried nonferrous objects. However, in practice there are many reported cases of items being detected at depths greater than they can be detected in an air test. I (like others on this forum) have also experienced this phenomenon. So what's going on?

IMHO it appears to me that the halo effect does not actually exist for nonferrous objects. What is most likely happening (in simple words) is that some deep targets are located in an area of soil that has some different properties than the surrounding area. This anomaly is sufficient to "boost" the phase shift in the target's signal, thus having the effect of making it more easily detectable. The anomaly itself is quite weak and would probably not be detectable on it's own. Replacing the target in the hole still leaves it undetectable, because the soil matrix has been disturbed and the anomaly effectively destroyed. In other words, digging up the object destroys the anomaly, and therefore any hope of restoring the "halo" effect, which actually didn't exist in the first place.

As is usually the case, you should always look for the simplest solution. Remember Occam's Razor.

Thanks Q, I've been waiting for someone to suggest that. I also believe in "helper objects", which could be tiny targets around, above, or below the recovered target that added to the signal strength but which are too weak to be detected by themselves. When we dig a coin at 13 inches, maybe there was another below it at 16 inches we never saw! Or maybe just broken bits of trash scattered near. You can imagine so many possibilities other than halo.

[Tinkerer]

Halo effect

I believe the halo effect can be caused by the presence of soluble metallic salts.

Microscopic particles of metal do not usually give a response to the metal detector. However many soluble metallic salts are conductive and can therefore give a response.

A metallic target that has been buried in an aggressive environment for a long time can have a halo caused by metallic salts that have formed over time.

Try the following test:

Dissolve one pound of table salt (sodium chloride) in one gallon of water.
Poor the solution in a non mineralized soil, then run the detector over it.

There is your halo effect.

Tinkerer

[ivconic]

I dont need to "beleive" in a thing. I dont need to prove a thing to unregistered "experts" here. Also i dont need any science to see and experience what i have been experienced for million times on the field, prospecting for more than 20 years...
I am not claiming a thing. I am not lying.
Also i never said i am expert,guru or whatever. Also i never claimed that fully understand what is all about.
I simply reported with simple words my often experiences.
Yes...old roman arrow (weapon), made from purified iron, placed in soil for 1600 years,untouched,undisturbed DO have some sort of "field","hallo" or whatever effect. And it is much easier detectable with metal detector than when dug out and dry a bit and again tested in air. Diffrences are not 1-2%...Diffrences are HUGE!
On 35cm depth detected in soil and later in air bairly at 20-25cm....
That was my first experience with this phenomena. After that (20 years ago)...this and simillar repeated almost every time in same manner...

But fresh burried item does not produce same effect. Fresh burried item is detected in soil on less distance than in air.
So...
I can not explain this. And i dont give a F..K to explain this, especially to unregistered wise guys here...
First REGISTER,than come here and act smart as much as you prefer.
Among majority of present members which are very descent and pleasant people..ocassionally appears some idiot to "put salt on our brains", acting smart and "scientific" to much...
That's why i void to come here more and more, recently. I dont have to much nervs for idiots lately.
This forum was place where i could relax and learn something new. Recently turned to be very "hard" place for me and my nervs...
To many "experts" and "scientists" appeared here. None of those want to join for real...register and contribute with some real thing.

Carl....since you are administrator, you should change forum rules. You should limit access to these pages only to registered and checked members, like i did on my amateur forum.
Without registration - no views, no posts...nothing.
Even if smartass register just for one ocassion and post something stupid...i am deleting him in no time. Good bye and farewell! Simply as that.
We joined here, became sort of friends, cooperate,exchange...help each other...and all of the sudden some fool appears to spoil already evolved good spirit. Thats why so few topics remained consistent recently here....
As administrator and owner you should have much "stronger arms" here, Carl....
Democracy is good only for good and smart people. For those acting "smart" only baseball bat is good....aint no democracy for them.

[Steve in MS]

Here's what I think which is unscientific and just my opinion. Maybe all of us would agree that iron can have halo effect? Next, copper and all its alloys break down when exposed to the earth, you know that green stuff that forms on it? So my take is that copper and its alloys will cause a degree of halo in the ground, that is the material off copper will scatter in the ground around the object causing a friendlier atmosphere for the detector to see it if the corrosion factor doesn't subtract from the gain. Lastly the best debate either for or against halo is silver and gold, seeing that they don't breakdown or corrode like most other metals but in my opinion there may actually be some halo around them also. Ever take a piece of metal and use 600 grit sand paper on it? It will polish the metal, actually you are taking off a very small amount of metal even though it would take some very expensive measuring devices to measure the amount taken off so here is the question, do minerals in the ground chemically break down gold and silver and any manner at all, if the answer is yes then there is the possibility of some halo effect to occur.
The surrounding ground if it has the halo effect in theory is undetectable in itself but detectors see minerals, even if the operator is unaware of it, right, ? Then it stands to reason that the ground around an object in the ground that has been chemically altered by the presence of the metal material could cause more favorable conditions for a better signal.

I realize there will always be some who think halo is for real or some who don't. I believe in the halo effect from what I have experienced while detecting or maybe the detector gods were with me at those times.

[ivconic]

Here's what I think which is unscientific and just my opinion. Maybe all of us would agree that iron can have halo effect? Next, copper and all its alloys break down when exposed to the earth, you know that green stuff that forms on it? So my take is that copper and its alloys will cause a degree of halo in the ground, that is the material off copper will scatter in the ground around the object causing a friendlier atmosphere for the detector to see it if the corrosion factor doesn't subtract from the gain. Lastly the best debate either for or against halo is silver and gold, seeing that they don't breakdown or corrode like most other metals but in my opinion there may actually be some halo around them also. Ever take a piece of metal and use 600 grit sand paper on it? It will polish the metal, actually you are taking off a very small amount of metal even though it would take some very expensive measuring devices to measure the amount taken off so here is the question, do minerals in the ground chemically break down gold and silver and any manner at all, if the answer is yes then there is the possibility of some halo effect to occur.
The surrounding ground if it has the halo effect in theory is undetectable in itself but detectors see minerals, even if the operator is unaware of it, right, ? Then it stands to reason that the ground around an object in the ground that has been chemically altered by the presence of the metal material could cause more favorable conditions for a better signal.

I realize there will always be some who think halo is for real or some who don't. I believe in the halo effect from what I have experienced while detecting or maybe the detector gods were with me at those times.

Most logical explanation. I agree.
Green stuff we called "patina".
More green stuff on ancient coins - better prices...
Bronze alloys do form high quality green stuff. But if Cu is in higher percentage in that alloy, green stuff is less quality...
etc..etc...

[Tinkerer]

Halo Effect

When I said "I believe", I meant "it is my understanding", I did not imply that it needs an "act of faith" to believe in the existence of the Halo Effect.
The Halo Effect exists and there are several ways it can be produced.

If we fully understand how it is produced, we may possibly be able to design better metal detectors.

A piece of metal that is buried for a long time is exposed to water or humidity.
Oxidation takes place. Products of the oxidation migrate into the surrounding soil. For example the "green stuff"mentioned above. The dry oxides in themselves might not be good conductors, but the watery solutions thereof have different characteristics than the dry oxides. many of these oxidation processes produce metallic salts that make otherwise inert water to become highly conductive. Table salt is a combination of the metal Sodium and Chlor. Ad salt to water and the water turns into a conductor. This is very obvious when you go metal detecting in the ocean or the salt water beaches.

Salt is also hygroscopic, that means that it attracts water. Where there is salt, there is always a certain amount of humidity. That means that there is a "pocket " of conductive soil surrounding the long time buried target, that enhances the response to the detector.

Now what about gold? It does not oxidize. Well think about it!!! It is all the same but a little bit different.
I will tell about the Halo Effect on gold the next time.

In the mean time maybe somebody could explain to me why a gold nugget or ring gives a non magnetic response on my PI discriminator but a 0.005 gram gold leaf gives a negative response just like a FE target.

What is so different with gold?

Tinkerer

[Tim Williams]

Could this be a plot showing the halo effect? We are still studying this plot and site. Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the plot. This is not a joke it was done using the Garrett XL500 and the Arc-Geo Logger. The two strongest points on the ring was hit by the guy using different dowsing equipment. I know those here don't use dowsing , so just look at the plot.

There is a metal target there, but the ring around it and where the rods directed is in line with my ring theory. Could this be a ring halo?

http://lrlman.com/Pages/LRL500/lrl500_mfd2.htm

Tim

[Steve in MS]

Tinkerer, I take it from your post that moisture migrates to metals underground? If that were the case even though it would have nothing to do with oxidation, that would make for a better signal, can you elaborate on that?

[Tinkerer]

Halo explained

Tinkerer, I take it from your post that moisture migrates to metals underground? If that were the case even though it would have nothing to do with oxidation, that would make for a better signal, can you elaborate on that?

Many of the chemical compounds that we commonly call "salt" are hygroscopic, thus they attract water. (Check on Google for hygroscopic salts)

Now, you used an interesting word: "migrates" Migration is how I explain the halo around gold.
gold is very resistant to oxidation, but it has another important characteristic that could explain the halo around long time buried gold.

Ion migration.

I am not very good at explaining things, so I will have to think of a simple experiment that anybody can try, to prove my point.
Here is a hint: google "potato battery" or any other vegetable or fruit battery. These simple experiments are beautiful samples of natures way of creating electricity and galvanic currents and therefore ION MIGRATION.

Tinkerer

[Fred]

Maybe :
A buried conductive material could influence the surrounding materials without chemical exchanges, in a similar way that a burried magnet would magnetise surrounding (magnetisable) materials, that in turns would do the same , extending the original effect.
Resulting realigned magnetic field would be destroyed by digging (like when breaking a magnet).
A ring would be perfect for creating such field, just like in a generator...it is just a loop of wire.
That make me also think of a proton magnetometer constantly energised by natural fields , the metallic object being the coil

regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Maybe :
A buried conductive material could influence the surrounding materials without chemical exchanges, in a similar way that a burried magnet would magnetise surrounding (magnetisable) materials, that in turns would do the same , extending the original effect.
Resulting realigned magnetic field would be destroyed by digging (like when breaking a magnet).
A ring would be perfect for creating such field, just like in a generator...it is just a loop of wire.
That make me also think of a proton magnetometer constantly energised by natural fields , the metallic object being the coil

regards,
Fred.

Now, all you're more able for to use such phenomenom for to detect from some meters. Since many years I insist in it here.

The "atmosphere" around this buried for long time metals has an electrical field. Once we found small treasure (family jewels) contained in small silver recipient. Over the recipient a square stone "press" the recipient. When we retire the stone, was liberate a gas with characteristic sound.

Regards

Esteban

[Monolith]

ION MIGRATION

Many of the chemical compounds that we commonly call "salt" are hygroscopic, thus they attract water. (Check on Google for hygroscopic salts)

Now, you used an interesting word: "migrates" Migration is how I explain the halo around gold.
gold is very resistant to oxidation, but it has another important characteristic that could explain the halo around long time buried gold.

Ion migration.

I am not very good at explaining things, so I will have to think of a simple experiment that anybody can try, to prove my point.
Here is a hint: google "potato battery" or any other vegetable or fruit battery. These simple experiments are beautiful samples of natures way of creating electricity and galvanic currents and therefore ION MIGRATION.

Tinkerer

Tinkerer, are you trying to tell us that your new PI discriminator is capable of detecting IONS?
Do you know how small IONS are?
I have seen your mention of detecting a target of 0.005 grams of gold. That already sounds rather exaggerated.

In general people talk of grams or in the extreme penny weights, but to talk of a target of 5 miligrams of gold sounds like smoke and mirrors to me.

But even then. Do you understand how many times smaller are IONS compared to miligrams of gold?

I think you have a "SMOKE DETECTOR", BS walks!!!!!!!

Monolith

[Monolith]

Halo Effect

Would this maybe describe the Halo Effect?????

Monolith

[Fred]

Now, all you're more able for to use such phenomenom for to detect from some meters. Since many years I insist in it here.
Esteban

Ok Esteban ,it doesn´t look so easy at first glance.And i don´t see any explanation for "many meters" detection in this theory.
From my post i was expecting some reaction from the experts...strange
Regards!,
Fred.