PCB Layout Programs

[porkluvr]

I looked around and the problems appear to be with certain types of "names", I found this on an Eagle Forum, see here:-
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Changing package of part containing pads with names begins with "+" or "-"
results in "lost consistency". Problem occurs in any of Eagle version
6.x.x. Any ideas ?
-----------------------------------------

Regards

Andy

That's just one example...

V6.1: I can simply select a resistor symbol, mirror it... reposition it, and BAM. Happens over and over again. That's just today's problem. Many different similar cases over the past week. I have experienced lots of crashes with the new release (incl. v6.1) and it's no fun at all. Even after v6.1 was announced I waited for some time before upgrading from v6.0 because I expected that I would see no improvement, and I was right.

I've had it. Today I wrote an angry note in their Support forum asking something to the effect "what kind of great improvements will you come up with next". I cannot express how I feel about CadSoft without using some really nasty words.

And I am in the process of rolling back to their much more stable V511 and expect to migrate to Diptrace.

[der_fisherman]

Problems with Eagle. Unknown OS.

That's just one example...
V6.1: I can simply select a resistor symbol, mirror it... reposition it, and BAM. Happens over and over again. That's just today's problem. Many different similar cases over the past week. I have experienced lots of crashes with the new release (incl. v6.1) and it's no fun at all. Even after v6.1 was announced I waited for some time before upgrading from v6.0 because I expected that I would see no improvement, and I was right.
I've had it. Today I wrote an angry note in their Support forum asking something to the effect "what kind of great improvements will you come up with next". I cannot express how I feel about CadSoft without using some really nasty words.
And I am in the process of rolling back to their much more stable V511 and expect to migrate to Diptrace.

As you seem to have problems that are not "findable" on any of the forums to do with Eagle that I looked at (please correct me with a web-link if you know that is not true), you could be looking at a PC or Mac problem on your unit.....(You never mentioned which OS you are using).

You may need to remove Eagle, then "clean" your computer. Then re-install......If you are using Windows, a registry clean followed by a defrag can often work wonders. I clean my registry at least twice a month.....You would be amazed just how many entries need cleaning out after a few weeks usage......and problems are also sometimes fixed, though mostly the OS just runs faster....

Also check your video drivers as such problems can often be due to video, a new type of video card WILL produce such errors till the drivers are trouble free and of course a correct setup. Maybe a lower level of pixels will help?....

New multi processor PCs or Laptops are also a possible source of problems as are 64 bit newer versions of Windows can be.....

If the family also use the PC - OH HO what that can bring.......same fixes, especially if games are on the PC!!

Furthermore, if you happen to be using Win 7 or Vista, I am not surprised in the slightest that you get problems, with XP 32 bit it runs far more stable according to friends in the USA.....and me!!

I know such errors are annoying in the extreme, but do always look at the big picture.

If you are using a Mac or Linux, I am afraid I cannot help in any way.....

regards

Andy

[der_fisherman]

3 D Visualizer and Editor for Eagle Projetcs

Look here:-

http://eagleup.wordpress.com/

For an interesting free software that allows 3D visualization of an Eagle PCB into the Free version of CAD Sketchup from Google. I have never used it up to now though....just seen it!!!

Best Wishes

Andy

[Qiaozhi]

Look here:-

http://eagleup.wordpress.com/

For an interesting free software that allows 3D visualization of an Eagle PCB into the Free version of CAD Sketchup from Google. I have never used it up to now though....just seen it!!!

Best Wishes

Andy

Google Sketchup is great, in case you've never used it.
You can waste so many hours ...

[porkluvr]

Eagle v6 crashes easy

After I realized exactly what was happening I described my issue in detail in the Eagle.support and Eagle.betatest forums. CadSoft has reproduced my crash scenario and the feedback I got is that it should get resolved for the next release.
(I am thrilled, I'm sure.)

All I have to do to crash Eagle v6 is to mirror a vertically oriented resistor symbol that has one end connected to ground.

[simonbaker]

After I realized exactly what was happening I described my issue in detail in the Eagle.support and Eagle.betatest forums. CadSoft has reproduced my crash scenario and the feedback I got is that it should get resolved for the next release.
(I am thrilled, I'm sure.)

All I have to do to crash Eagle v6 is to mirror a vertically oriented resistor symbol that has one end connected to ground.

I always think the person who finds the bug should at least get a temporary fixed version well ahead of the official release. Or at least they should give you a free upgrade for doing QA on their product.

-SB

[porkluvr]

I always think the person who finds the bug should at least get a temporary fixed version well ahead of the official release. Or at least they should give you a free upgrade for doing QA on their product.

-SB

Yeah, but I never paid for their product in the first place. I've been using the freeware and it's great for small projects.

There is a crack available that fools Eagle into allowing the user to have professional license privileges, but I would never use a pirated version of software because that's illegal, and I'm a law abiding pirate, er, citizen.

[der_fisherman]

Yeah, but I never paid for their product in the first place. I've been using the freeware and it's great for small projects.

There is a crack available that fools Eagle into allowing the user to have professional license privileges, but I would never use a pirated version of software because that's illegal, and I'm a law abiding pirate, er, citizen.

Dear Simon & Porkluvr,
I actually use an older version myself, 5.40, which might explain why I have had no problems and I never saw the need to upgrade, I am happy where I am. But for anyone new to Eagle, I would recommend normally the newest version, though secondhand versions of a lower level could be a cheap way to start designing PCBs.

But I feel that the experiences of Porkluvr demonstrates that CADSoft are willing to find and fix any problems found with their products, even if it is the free version. Many companies not only do not support their free version as its often an old unfixed one, but are also unwilling to take on problems discovered by a "free" user.... They do not understand what an impression that can give a possible future customer....

I feel that the "problems" found actually recommend Eagle to new users.....

Regards

Andy

[porkluvr]

But I feel that the experiences of Porkluvr demonstrates that CADSoft are willing to find and fix any problems found with their products, even if it is the free version. Many companies not only do not support their free version as its often an old unfixed one, but are also unwilling to take on problems discovered by a "free" user.... They do not understand what an impression that can give a possible future customer....

I feel that the "problems" found actually recommend Eagle to new users.....
Regards
Andy

I still have a pretty dim view of how they work. I don't think CadSoft deserves a medal for being willing to fix an egregious malfunction (BUG) in their latest software.

They probably should rely less on their beta test program and instead rely more on their own testers, and really thrash the program in-house before exposing it to the outside world. Just my opinion.

I feel better now - anticipating a bug fix, but for a while I was totally disgusted with their product and I know that I was not the only one. They lost customers because of their haphazard quality control and customer service after releasing v6.

Looky here, I spent many hours just trying to make sure v6 did not FUBAR my v5 files, just in case I would later decide to revert back to v5. V6 wanted to access and convert my v5 files (which would make them unreadable to v5) and it was a real fight to keep that from happening.

That went on for days. I had to ultimately ask for help on using dos commands in a directory tree with long-file names, and configure my desktop icons to set separate paths for different eaglerc.usr files for the different versions, and that was only half of the solution. Even after configuring separate paths, Eagle v6 still found a way to access my v5 files. That pissed me off no end but at least I knew what else I had to do.

It was a complicated mess and CadSoft was absolutely no help, beyond referring to a “-U” option but not explaining it whatsoever. (I couldn’t find an explanation, anyway.)

And with that out of the way I would finally get to see some production? No such luck because v6 was crashing all over the place. It is the worst behaving piece of crap software that I have used in a very long time. It will remain so until they fix it. I have reverted to v5 and will keep using v5 because I feel pretty sure that there are other crash mechanisms still unidentified in v6. Even if everything works great, the bug I identified is bad enough to make me not want to use v6. After I can feel safe using the Mirror command, (probably with v6.2) then I will install v6.2 and try it, and maybe it won't kick me around like the current version.
stick:

[mario]

I still have a pretty dim view of how they work. I don't think CadSoft deserves a medal for being willing to fix an egregious malfunction (BUG) in their latest software.

They probably should rely less on their beta test program and instead rely more on their own testers, and really thrash the program in-house before exposing it to the outside world. Just my opinion.

I feel better now - anticipating a bug fix, but for a while I was totally disgusted with their product and I know that I was not the only one. They lost customers because of their haphazard quality control and customer service after releasing v6.

Looky here, I spent many hours just trying to make sure v6 did not FUBAR my v5 files, just in case I would later decide to revert back to v5. V6 wanted to access and convert my v5 files (which would make them unreadable to v5) and it was a real fight to keep that from happening.

That went on for days. I had to ultimately ask for help on using dos commands in a directory tree with long-file names, and configure my desktop icons to set separate paths for different eaglerc.usr files for the different versions, and that was only half of the solution. Even after configuring separate paths, Eagle v6 still found a way to access my v5 files. That pissed me off no end but at least I knew what else I had to do.

It was a complicated mess and CadSoft was absolutely no help, beyond referring to a “-U” option but not explaining it whatsoever. (I couldn’t find an explanation, anyway.)

And with that out of the way I would finally get to see some production? No such luck because v6 was crashing all over the place. It is the worst behaving piece of crap software that I have used in a very long time. It will remain so until they fix it. I have reverted to v5 and will keep using v5 because I feel pretty sure that there are other crash mechanisms still unidentified in v6. Even if everything works great, the bug I identified is bad enough to make me not want to use v6. After I can feel safe using the Mirror command, (probably with v6.2) then I will install v6.2 and try it, and maybe it won't kick me around like the current version.
stick:

Hi porkster,

Relax!

I understand your frustrations because you have come to rely on their software, but you need to realize that software is software, always changing and not set in stone.

Version 6 was only released recently (not even months ago), so I can't understand your impatience with the bug issues. With each major release of complex software like Eagle, developers always have problems to resolve.

The important thing is that they are actually doing something about it, not only fixing the issues but also adding new features that will make this tool even better.

Their software is free and enjoyed by millions. You said it yourself, you did not paid for the product, so just relax. Use their previous FREE and stable version while they work on the new one.

[simonbaker]

I still have a pretty dim view of how they work. I don't think CadSoft deserves a medal for being willing to fix an egregious malfunction (BUG) in their latest software.

They probably should rely less on their beta test program and instead rely more on their own testers, and really thrash the program in-house before exposing it to the outside world. Just my opinion.

I feel better now - anticipating a bug fix, but for a while I was totally disgusted with their product and I know that I was not the only one. They lost customers because of their haphazard quality control and customer service after releasing v6.

Looky here, I spent many hours just trying to make sure v6 did not FUBAR my v5 files, just in case I would later decide to revert back to v5. V6 wanted to access and convert my v5 files (which would make them unreadable to v5) and it was a real fight to keep that from happening.

That went on for days. I had to ultimately ask for help on using dos commands in a directory tree with long-file names, and configure my desktop icons to set separate paths for different eaglerc.usr files for the different versions, and that was only half of the solution. Even after configuring separate paths, Eagle v6 still found a way to access my v5 files. That pissed me off no end but at least I knew what else I had to do.

It was a complicated mess and CadSoft was absolutely no help, beyond referring to a “-U” option but not explaining it whatsoever. (I couldn’t find an explanation, anyway.)

And with that out of the way I would finally get to see some production? No such luck because v6 was crashing all over the place. It is the worst behaving piece of crap software that I have used in a very long time. It will remain so until they fix it. I have reverted to v5 and will keep using v5 because I feel pretty sure that there are other crash mechanisms still unidentified in v6. Even if everything works great, the bug I identified is bad enough to make me not want to use v6. After I can feel safe using the Mirror command, (probably with v6.2) then I will install v6.2 and try it, and maybe it won't kick me around like the current version.
stick:

I feel similarly. The issue is that, because of the learning curve, people invest huge amounts of time into a particular product and really no longer are free to go elsewhere. Also most software companies skimp on tech support and rely on customer forums where customers help each other in desperation. I feel software companies at least owe customers speedy bug fixes prior to official releases. They sold a defective product; it should be fixed asap. You could argue the point about it being a free version, but I feel the free version is a marketing tool to create dependence on the product and thus future income, and that it is represented as working product. To me it is unethical to have a buggy free version where the bugs don't surface until 3 months into a project and you are forced to purchase a less buggy version to finish.

Anyway...

-SB

[porkluvr]

Hi porkster,

Relax!

I understand your frustrations because you have come to rely on their software, but you need to realize that software is software, always changing and not set in stone.

Version 6 was only released recently (not even months ago), so I can't understand your impatience with the bug issues. With each major release of complex software like Eagle, developers always have problems to resolve.

The important thing is that they are actually doing something about it, not only fixing the issues but also adding new features that will make this tool even better.

Their software is free and enjoyed by millions. You said it yourself, you did not paid for the product, so just relax. Use their previous FREE and stable version while they work on the new one.

You can't understand my impatience with the bug issue? I can't understand how CadSoft could release a product to the public that has such an egregious fault as the one I found. That’s just one bug manifestation... how long will it be before I perhaps find another? But that currently on hold because I will not be using v6 until they make the bug-fix; it’s too aggraviating.

I suppose I've been spoiled. I started with Eagle v3.5.5 which was archaic by modern standards, and extremely klunky (through and through) compared to the more recent versions.
Cadsoft has gradually made their package easier to use, and added features that make it feel less like a chore to design with. There are still some clunky features and areas that could use some improvement, but those are easier to overlook when the rest of the package looks pretty good.

Still, whenever they have new releases I invariably have to go into the configuration files and try to undo some things that impede my way of doing things. Some of their improvements (like drop down context menus) I find absolutely useless. They get in my way so I turn them off so I won't see them. There's always something that I have to tweak just to get things working as before, where I am comfortable.
There will be a real improvement in some areas, but usually, other “improvements” are useless or even counterproductive to me.

So, I am wary of their upgrades. And when I get a release that I still have to undo certain features, jump through multiple hoops just to make it behave 'nice' (and not destroy work from a previous version), and then find that I have to contend with its constant crashing, I get rattled. I’m normally a patient person but CadSoft has more stupid than I can stand. I lose patience with stupidity.
You might say that Eagle is getting on my last nerve and if it weren't for the fact that they did throw in some good and very usable improvements with v6, I would be running to find and learn another Cad package.

I don't appreciate CadSoft using me and other post-beta users as crash-test dummies. Maybe they could hire some crash test dummies (a dozen or so), give the economy a boost, and they would not scare off and lose as many potential customers.

edit: Really, I can't say ****-off?

[mario]

I feel sim.... To me it is unethical to have a buggy free version where the bugs don't surface until 3 months into a project and you are forced to purchase a less buggy version to finish...

Anyway...

-SB

That's not the case! Their retail version is as buggy as their free version. They don't require you to pay for a bug-free version, nor will they require you to pay for the fixes once they become available.

These guys recently overhauled the internals of Version 6, why can't you guys just be patient?

Geez, this is not Microsoft we're talking about people. Look at what happened with Vista. People paid a good deal of money for crappy software that never got fixed. And when it eventually was fixed, Microsoft repackaged it as Windows 7, and had you pay for it again!

Where were you guys when Microsoft did this? The fixes will come.

[simonbaker]

That's not the case! Their retail version is as buggy as their free version. They don't require you to pay for a bug-free version, nor will they require you to pay for the fixes once they become available.

These guys recently overhauled the internals of Version 6, why can't you guys just be patient?

Geez, this is not Microsoft we're talking about people. Look at what happened with Vista. People paid a good deal of money for crappy software that never got fixed. And when it eventually was fixed, Microsoft repackaged it as Windows 7, and had you pay for it again!

Where were you guys when Microsoft did this? The fixes will come.

I'm ready to join the class action suit against Microsoft if you'll start it. I've spent untold thousands of dollars of my time working around their bugs and recovering from crashes...

I don't know about Cadsoft -- just talking in principle. Eagle sounds very good and I'm sure worth working around some crap. Hey, its winter, got to blow off some steam...

-SB

[der_fisherman]

I feel similarly. The issue is that, because of the learning curve, people invest huge amounts of time into a particular product and really no longer are free to go elsewhere. Also most software companies skimp on tech support and rely on customer forums where customers help each other in desperation. I feel software companies at least owe customers speedy bug fixes prior to official releases. They sold a defective product; it should be fixed asap. You could argue the point about it being a free version, but I feel the free version is a marketing tool to create dependence on the product and thus future income, and that it is represented as working product. To me it is unethical to have a buggy free version where the bugs don't surface until 3 months into a project and you are forced to purchase a less buggy version to finish.

Anyway...

-SB

Porkluvr has not bought Eagle as far as I understand, he is (quite correctly) using the free version, so as far as I am aware, no money has changed hands.
I have to agree with him that versions 5.xx work better and thankfully I did not bother to update, my version is a full paid version and I am happy with it completely....had it several years now.....no need to add anything.....I don't have the money for that anyway....
Regards
Andy
PS. If Porkluvr had saved all his files to say a CD or DVD and not even had them on his hard disk, 6.xx could not have found them to try and change them.....simple data safety.
PPS. I don't know if a 5.xx version is around to be downloaded from CADSoft still or not.....
PPPS. The GUI for Eagle has not really changed all that much since at least ver2.5, my first version, what you learn in one version stays mostly the same as the versions are improved.....thank God. You don't have to learn a new version each time, though 6.xx was quite different I believe, but by how much I cannot say....Porkluvr can you tell us please?