PCB Layout Programs

[mario]

Anybody here uses Sprint Layout 5? I've been using it for a while, though not often enough.

I love the program, but on my next project, I would love to create a schematic and have the application generate the pcb layout and trace.

Is there any way to import a schematic into Sprint, or is this only possible with Eagle?

[MAURICE]

Hi all.
I have re read this thread and to answer a few questions.
Mario I think that Splan is required for schematic capture to go to Sprint.
I like Porkluvr have tried Pulsonix ( the bigger version of Easy PC,design Designspark being a variation) found it impossible to make a part.
What I know is that most people are very passionate about there design program and very reluctant to change because it is hard work to learn new program.
But what i can say is that Diptrace has one small problem which is easily overcome.
When printing the PC cant find path to printer.
What i do is print short text ( xx ) in notepad first then print in Diptrace (after turning page over). This might be only for my machine.
Some of the pluses for Diptrace.
It runs very well in Ubuntu under Wine.
Very easy to make parts and libraries.
Large libraries supplied with program.
I have successfully converted Eagle libraries and this also works well.
It is possible to convert Eagle PCB and SCH i have not tried this yet.
The design manager is fantastic for finding parts or symbols in large boards or schematics.
Pad sizes are changeable.
Ability to save in JPEG nice for posting on forum .
When you hover mouse over nets or tracks they change color very useful when troubleshooting.
Many video tutorials available.
make a request to Diptrace and get 500 pin FREEWARE ( CHECK WM6 POST ).
This has been large enough to hold IGSL-MC by IVONIC.
Best regards
Maurice.

[mario]

Hi all.
I have re read this thread and to answer a few questions.
Mario I think that Splan is required for schematic capture to go to Sprint.
I like Porkluvr have tried Pulsonix ( the bigger version of Easy PC,design Designspark being a variation) found it impossible to make a part.
What I know is that most people are very passionate about there design program and very reluctant to change because it is hard work to learn new program.
But what i can say is that Diptrace has one small problem which is easily overcome.
When printing the PC cant find path to printer.
What i do is print short text ( xx ) in notepad first then print in Diptrace (after turning page over). This might be only for my machine.
Some of the pluses for Diptrace.
It runs very well in Ubuntu under Wine.
Very easy to make parts and libraries.
Large libraries supplied with program.
I have successfully converted Eagle libraries and this also works well.
It is possible to convert Eagle PCB and SCH i have not tried this yet.
The design manager is fantastic for finding parts or symbols in large boards or schematics.
Pad sizes are changeable.
Ability to save in JPEG nice for posting on forum .
When you hover mouse over nets or tracks they change color very useful when troubleshooting.
Many video tutorials available.
make a request to Diptrace and get 500 pin FREEWARE ( CHECK WM6 POST ).
This has been large enough to hold IGSL-MC by IVONIC.
Best regards
Maurice.

Hi Maurice,

I installed sPlan 7.0. It's made by the same software company that makes sprint 5. Still, it seems like I can't export to Sprint 5 ".lay" file format. I can only export to ".emf" and ".svg".

How can I create schematics with sPlan, that will be able to be read by Sprint 5?

[der_fisherman]

Schematic to PCB compatability

Anybody here uses Sprint Layout 5? I've been using it for a while, though not often enough.

I love the program, but on my next project, I would love to create a schematic and have the application generate the pcb layout and trace.

Is there any way to import a schematic into Sprint, or is this only possible with Eagle?

The two programs from Abacom (SPlan & Slayout) do not form a unit or are compatible with each other to allow a schematic to be made into a PCB. They never did, I believe they never will. Its strange really......and very short sighted of Abacom to my mind.....

To make completely sure, I read through the whole of their German website to see if the latest versions had been changed or not, they haven't.

Eagle (which I know quite well and several other different software products that I know nothing about can do this) of course do it very well. (If you need further infos about Eagle in this direction just ask, but I have already posted on this a few weeks back).

As far as I am aware, there are no other programs around that can import either of the file types from Abacom products, please anyone correct me if you know differently.

Regards
Andy

[mario]

The two programs from Abacom (SPlan & Slayout) do not form a unit or are compatible with each other to allow a schematic to be made into a PCB. They never did, I believe they never will. Its strange really......and very short sighted of Abacom to my mind.....

To make completely sure, I read through the whole of their German website to see if the latest versions had been changed or not, they haven't.

Eagle (which I know quite well and several other different software products that I know nothing about can do this) of course do it very well. (If you need further infos about Eagle in this direction just ask, but I have already posted on this a few weeks back).

As far as I am aware, there are no other programs around that can import either of the file types from Abacom products, please anyone correct me if you know differently.

Regards
Andy

Thank you Andy,

I will stop waisting my time with sPlan.

I agree with your comment regarding sPlan and Sprint. Why those two programs are not compatible is beyond me. I will also agree with Maurice's comment regarding PCB software users.

I have read many posts referencing Eagle on many other sites. It does seem to be distributed among hobbiest far more than any other software. However, I have not used Eagle, and after using Sprint, I will find it hard adjusting. Sprint makes things too easy and is so powerful.

I'll remain open minded about the issue. I see the schematic importing feature of PCB software a very important, time saving feature.

Anyway, do you think the schematic importing feature of Eagle is worth the trouble of having to relearn a new program?

I have a lot of custom components on Sprint, and making new components/libraries is slow work, but a pleasure - perhaps one of Sprint's most powerful features. Are there limitations with Eagle?

Where do you suggest I get started?

Mario

[der_fisherman]

Comparisons

Thank you Andy,
I will stop waisting my time with sPlan.
I agree with your comment regarding sPlan and Sprint. Why those two programs are not compatible is beyond me. I will also agree with Maurice's comment regarding PCB software users.
I have read many posts referencing Eagle on many other sites. It does seem to be distributed among hobbiest far more than any other software. However, I have not used Eagle, and after using Sprint, I will find it hard adjusting. Sprint makes things too easy and is so powerful.

I'll remain open minded about the issue. I see the schematic importing feature of PCB software a very important, time saving feature.

Anyway, do you think the schematic importing feature of Eagle is worth the trouble of having to relearn a new program?

I have a lot of custom components on Sprint, and making new components/libraries is slow work, but a pleasure - perhaps one of Sprint's most powerful features. Are there limitations with Eagle?

Where do you suggest I get started?

Mario

Firstly this is a biased answer as I have been using Eagle off and on for well over 20 years......

Eagle has its own schematic editor that can import from several sources, not that you need to import if you start in the editor.

This schematic editor can produce PCBs within Eagle with no other input as you can thicken up and move say the power tracks very simply.....i9f needed.

It does take a day or so to get into, as do almost any program of this style.

I personally have never caught out the libraries, they are so huge and extensive. Even if you do not find the chip you want, finding another chip with the same footprint will fix the problem. If you then wish to make a copy of that component, change the name and save it you can.....but again the libraries are REALLY HUGE!!!! Or design from scratch....

The free Eagle version is only restricted in layers (2), huge schematic sheets (1) and PCB size (10 x 80 cm), otherwise NO RESTRICTIONS!!! This fits in perfectly with metal detectors, in a worse case situation, 2 seperate boards can be made.

There is software to make a PCB using a CNC Router if needed.

The Autorouter is awesome if you like placing chips on a PCB and wiring them up.

Its possible to make a schematic for normal components, make a PCB. Just change the schematic to SMD components and you get an SMD PCB. Or even mixed normal & SMD if needed.

If you like testing on a breadboard, then use "Fritzing" to capture & convert it to an Eagle schematic and later an Eagle PCB.

I have only just scratched the surface here........go to the website (in English or German) and look, it is well worth learning.

regards

Andy

[MAURICE]

HI. ALL
Blow me down what program can create a net list for Sprint????????.
So one has to manually make connections to make PCB.
How old fashioned, but I must admit I have seen some excellent work done on Sprint
I have used it a little to make some small changes in my IGSLMC board.
I will tell you what put me off Eagle, I had a Eagle user over and asked him how I could change pad sizes.
He could not answer. The only work around would be to build new library with larger pads.
My second choice would be Kicad but it has a complex filing system witch is difficult to explain but one could learn it.
Please read post by WM6 he has tested many programs over the years.
I have also used Pulsonix extremely difficult to create new parts.
For what its worth I have found Diptrace to be fairly intuitive and best suits my needs well.
Regards MAURICE.

[der_fisherman]

Changing Pad sizes in Eagle

HI. ALL
I will tell you what put me off Eagle, I had a Eagle user over and asked him how I could change pad sizes.
He could not answer. The only work around would be to build new library with larger pads.
Regards MAURICE.

Nothing easier than changing pad sizes, you mark the area of the PCB to be changed, or even just a single pad or component, your choice. Set the pad size and issue the command. Someone good in Eagle can change all pads in about 2 seconds on even a huge PCB.
You can change all these Pad parameters at the same time if you wish:-

CHANGE SHAPE SQUARE | ROUND | OCTAGON | LONG | OFFSET
Pad/via/smd flags

That is the problem with dummies, don't believe them, try it out for yourself and learn far better. If this function was difficult or not available, Eagle would not be where it is today......

Here is an abstract from the Eagle Change Command (an important wide ranging command), I have restricted it to Pads only, to show exactly how its done, this function has hardly changed in over 20 years. The Group command mentioned can be a box, a circle or any shape you wish to make a group of any size. You only change the pads you want to change:-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CHANGE Function
Changes parameters.
Syntax
CHANGE option • •..
Mouse keys
Ctrl+Right changes parameter of the group.

The CHANGE command is used to change or preset properties of objects. The objects are clicked on with the mouse after the desired parameters have been selected from the CHANGE command menu or have been typed in from the keyboard.

Parameters adjusted with the CHANGE command remain as preset properties for objects added later. All values in the CHANGE command are used according to the actual grid unit.

Change Groups
When using the CHANGE command with a group, the group is first identified with the GROUP command before entering the CHANGE command with appropriate parameters. The right button of the mouse is then used to execute the changes.

What can be changed?

Pad shape

CHANGE SHAPE SQUARE | ROUND | OCTAGON | LONG | OFFSET
Pad/via/smd flags

CHANGE VISIBLE BOTH | PAD | PIN | OFF
------------------------------------------------------
I took this out of the Eagle help command infos which are really well written and easy to understand.

It is written for Windows, Linux and the Mac and runs in one of several languages - many other programs don't, Windows and English only is often true!

Regards

Andy

[mario]

Thank you guys, I downloaded Eagle and now have it installed. There seems to be a steep learning curb, and it's not straight forward as Sprint, but like anything else this complex, it'll be rewarding once learned.

I'll have to find more online tutorials to get more comfortable.

[porkluvr]

CadSoft recently came out with a new major version of Eagle, v6. From my experience Eagle v5 was very stable and usable despite its many flaws. In contrast, Eagle v6 is very unstable and crashes often. Also it is very tricky to use v6 alongside v5 because v6 has a tendency to reach into your v5 libraries and projects (rendering them unreadable by v5), even after you go to great trouble to tell it not to, and even after you show it where the v6 files reside!

I really don't think the improvements that v6 offers is worth the incredible instability and I will probably the going back to v5.

I have been wanting to learn Diptrace and the main thing holding me back is its lack of dual monitor support. In reality, that is probably a small problem but then I also do hate to have to learn the new system.

[mario]

CadSoft recently came out with a new major version of Eagle, v6. From my experience Eagle v5 was very stable and usable despite its many flaws. In contrast, Eagle v6 is very unstable and crashes often. Also it is very tricky to use v6 alongside v5 because v6 has a tendency to reach into your v5 libraries and projects (rendering them unreadable by v5), even after you go to great trouble to tell it not to, and even after you show it where the v6 files reside!

I really don't think the improvements that v6 offers is worth the incredible instability and I will probably the going back to v5.

I have been wanting to learn Diptrace and the main thing holding me back is its lack of dual monitor support. In reality, that is probably a small problem but then I also do hate to have to learn the new system.

Thank you for the insight porkluvr, but it seems like I'm in luck.

Cadsoft just few days ago released v6.1 which addresses many of the instability issues you mention (http://www.element14.com/community/m...on-61-released).

Still, the new release does seem to have several unresolved issues according to the community forums...

[der_fisherman]

Thank you guys, I downloaded Eagle and now have it installed. There seems to be a steep learning curb, and it's not straight forward as Sprint, but like anything else this complex, it'll be rewarding once learned.

I'll have to find more online tutorials to get more comfortable.

There are various websites with tutorials and the like. There are even blogs on yahoo for Eagle users. Just look around. If you need more help just ask.
Regards
Andy

[porkluvr]

Thank you for the insight porkluvr, but it seems like I'm in luck.

Cadsoft just few days ago released v6.1 which addresses many of the instability issues you mention (http://www.element14.com/community/m...on-61-released).

Still, the new release does seem to have several unresolved issues according to the community forums...

I promise you, they have not resolved the issue of instability. I used v6.1 this afternoon and it crashed within two minutes.

I have the auto save option set for every TWO minutes and save often but I still get lots of heartburn.

Their most recent upgrades imo have always been like "two steps forward and one step back". Some of their recent "improvements" have been useless or even detrimental. Wherever they leave a way to roll back changes to make things work the way they used to, I take advantage of it in many cases. But I'm afraid that the only way for me to get around these new crashes is to roll back to v5.11.

[der_fisherman]

I promise you, they have not resolved the issue of instability. I used v6.1 this afternoon and it crashed within two minutes.

I have the auto save option set for every TWO minutes and save often but I still get lots of heartburn.

Their most recent upgrades imo have always been like "two steps forward and one step back". Some of their recent "improvements" have been useless or even detrimental. Wherever they leave a way to roll back changes to make things work the way they used to, I take advantage of it in many cases. But I'm afraid that the only way for me to get around these new crashes is to roll back to v5.11.

I use 5.40. If the older version can still be downloaded that might be an idea.....I have never upgraded to anything higher. Simply never needed it.

Are you using the Windows, Linux or Mac OS Version? Where can I read about the instability?

I use Windows with vers.5.40 with no problems....

regards
Andy

[der_fisherman]

Possible reason for Instability

I use 5.40. If the older version can still be downloaded that might be an idea.....I have never upgraded to anything higher. Simply never needed it.

Are you using the Windows, Linux or Mac OS Version? Where can I read about the instability?

I use Windows with vers.5.40 with no problems....

regards
Andy

I looked around and the problems appear to be with certain types of "names", I found this on an Eagle Forum, see here:-
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Changing package of part containing pads with names begins with "+" or "-"
results in "lost consistency". Problem occurs in any of Eagle version
6.x.x. Any ideas ?
-----------------------------------------

Regards


Andy