from M.D to imaging

[Funfinder]

There exists also the possibility to combine already available software and freeware:

The MD signal will come over the audio-input into the small laptop or smartphone and then:

Audio visualizer in combination with screen recorder plus GPS mapping.
But I don't know how good is the audio-output from a magnetometer or a selfbuilt GPR.
And MDs with chit chat beep beep signals in this case are also not useful.

The signal should be at least somehow available on a good distinctive signal-level scale as with the DeepHunter:

"Ability to provide signal graphic of target (oscilloscope)" - check out the info bottom left at picture 3, link(s) below!

So the Audio Visualizer software can show the different volume levels from the detector-output on screen which are becoming live recorded for later analysis and combined with the GPS map! This also is possible wireless - instead into the headphones, the transmitted audio-signal goes directly into the phone, tablet or laptop!

Profis also can try to grab the digital signal from the magnetometer, GPR or MD hahaha if they know how they can use it. Creating a TV-signal from it or whatever. Best would be a live rendering software which prints (and recording it) every second a square on the screen which shows the actual signal level. The always visible on-screen-oscilloscope from the DeepHunter shows the signal-level line of ca. the last 30 seconds until it resets and starts over. Not just metal but also negative values (cavity or mineralized rocks).

[AK48]

good evening, yes indeed this is doable but I would like to know why it would be necessary to add a GPS to this system
thank you

[Funfinder]

Namaste and thank you for the further interest, because this shows me that you are seriously into it.

You don't really need GPS if you have a speed-adjustable auto-drawing software, a compass and fixed corner-orientation points, but GPS or Glonass could make the created "treasure-map" more precise.


As explanation:
The software knows that you walk each second two meters ahead from south to north and after 30 meters (or 10, or 50, just input the wanted value before) you make a U-turn (and maybe press a button for more exact drawing) and the program creates/draws automatically a little map with the MD signal values. Different colors or however.

by the way: Good chances that the internal bluetooth-receiver of the smartphone, tablet or laptop catches the signal directly and provides it for the audio-visualizer etc. app.

Search strings:

bluetooth audio jack adapter
bluetooth audio jack transmitter

Just for inspiration - here you see how such an area-map-drawing can look like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_NWRGvPeJc

[AK48]

thank you, I therefore understand that the American GPS or the Russian glonass was in fact only used to isolate a plot wich may contain a target so it is not used for anything else, when for me I can therefore do without it because I prefer to delimit a piece of land with physical landmarks (ropes, ect...) and to analyze it immediately, I know where my plot is located and I therefore no longer need gps or glonasse because I have a moment of doubt that it would be necessary for the software and/or hardware
thank you

[AK48]

the invenio's imaging system is great, however I would need more depth in my area because good targets like coin jars can be up to about 2.50 meters deep that's why I'm dreaming of a system like the SSP 5100 from detech with the imaging system from the inventio but I think that using the SSP 5100 with frame + imaging from the inventio does not work because I guess it is a no motion detector but I'm not sure while the invenio is a motion detector but I'm not sure, so what do you think of the SSP 5100 with the imagery of the invenio ?

[Funfinder]

OK, if I imagine that I would have or want to built a "huge area"-detector, for what would I use it and which functions it should have... ?!

Yesterday I saw a Docu about a sunken ship and how they made a 3D-image from it with special sonar, but thats a pretty different thing.
With laser-scanners you also can make 3D images out of huge ruin-towns, but this also doesn't helps us in this case.

Let me think - (I'm doing this live now, hahaha) - given that I have understood it correctly, you just wanna find very deep finds and map them.

Well, the only sense in this I see to mark the finds on a map to dig them out later.
Because just for knowing if an area has been already searched just scatter some plastic bags over that area an put a stone over them.

OK, I've downloaded the SSP 5100 manual pdf and for me it looks like this PI-detector is not deep enough for your tasks, also not with 1m coil. btw. I've been already just a few kilometers away from Shumen, Bulgaria, where this MD comes from.


Main important first is, that you get a REALLY deep detector, because such coin-jars are perhaps only 30cm in diameter and at over 2 meters it becomes complicated. My 10 years ago buried beer-caps-hoard hahaha with 15x15cm diameter already becomes hard to detect at 80cm depth with 45cm coil, but in mineralized soil. In air the Jeohunter finds a 40x30cm Aluminium plate from 2 meters with no problems with the "small" 45cm coil. I should test sometimes from which distance the 1m coil finds it, but for such over 20cm stuff its ca. the double.


You also can not use the Invenio because as far as I know, it does not has a 1m coil. And the really great 55cm coil is still too small for such very deep finds. btw. the Invenio has motion but also non-motion, thats why it also can finds cavity. You can download the brochure and manual pdf's from the Turkisch website.

Only for mapping, just print out a close up from google maps satellite view, mark your in reality marked find-area there, make some grid-patterns which represents 5x5 meter squares or smaller and if you find something, write it directly into this print-out. If you're done with the survey, make a digital foto and burn the original for more security! hahaha

Personally i would use such imaging only for very deep single finds or with magnetometer for sunken cities to see where are the ruins under the ground. Or for a new method of GPR-signals imaging, because this foolish zig-zag-lines crap is most of the time completely worthless and brings losses and failures without end.

btw. If you have Quartz-sands at your search-destination then your chances are VERY good that you will get almost the same depth as in air! This is the same with limestone - the signal goes through like butter! hahaha But Africa also has a lot high mineralized red soil locations - especially South Sahara regions, Ivory-Coast etc.

Depending on the audio-output of PI-detectors, you can use the signal for mapping as told 3-4 posts above.

The Invenio uses a special technology called IPTU-Sensor for tracking the coils location (just locally, without GPS).
btw. working without GPS has the advantage that nobody knows where are your exact treasure-locations! hahaha
But its more fun to know perfectly the location so you can find later the exact spot and revisit it, research it again.

OK, this was quite a pile of information but try to focus and think about what would be the priority now.

It's also very important that your motivation grows while "attacking" such projects and not dimishes by too complicated obstacles.

You also may find some experienced Pulse-Induction guys here, who can tell you what you will find with a 1m coil and how "good" is the discrimination, the search speed or the signal-output for the imaging / map-creation. Or they can at least recommend you the best of the best available PI-detectors. And please check all kind of test-clips with 1 meter coil detectors to get an impression of the possible depths.

And good luck because you will need it - this could become a pretty "nice" task.

[AK48]

the SSP5100 manual is not very talkative when its depth
detection that's why I give the link of two videos, the Bulgarians
are serious in the design of the detectors I have myself the
nexus standard MKII and I speak knowingly
SSP 5100 coke can buried at 70 cm (6.6x11.5 cm) + magnetometerintegrated
up to 3 meter with 1x1m frame coil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXJGWlNVnVY
and up to 1 meter with the 45cm round coil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk4dFn8CRqw
and what is interesting is the integrated magnetometer on all
coils and in addition there is an optional 2x2 meter frame so imagine the depth; moreover this machine gives indications on the size and possible depth of the target on its screen
as for the jeohunter, I have nothing against it but the detection distance in the air means nothing because mine detects a coin in the air at one meter but not in the ground
thank you

[Funfinder]

Merci for the interesting test-videos. And I have exactly the same 45cm coil from Detech - the world is small.
This coil design is perfect because it is the most possible lightweight and any 60 or 65cm should have the same look.

About the tests - they make a better impression as in reality because PI is slow and if you move the coil over the field
you really have to work VERY slowly for distincting the faster becoming R-R-R-R-R-pulses from the slower but still present
"there is nothing"-pulses - especially for very deep stuff.

Slowest is PI, in the middle is non-motion and fastest is motion, but motion is "blurry" and easily distorted and also not so deep.

In air versus inside normal mineralized soil buried usually just makes ca. 20% depth-difference!
I would bury something in the usual available soil and test the difference with in air results.

There's also some kind of psychological problem because in air the find is visible and can become positioned exact over the coils center while if buried, it no longer might be found, if the coil is just 10cm away - concerning smaller deeper finds.

Making the coil stationary and puting the finds near or under it also is a very unrealistic test-setup, because the coil-movement itself can create all kind of distortions, especially with larger coils. For heavy mineralized soil it makes already a huge difference if you hold the coil 5 vs. 10cm near to the surface, especially for non-motion detectors at high sensitivity settings who can detect cavity.

The Jeohunter (nonmotion only) just is good for coins if used with the 25cm coil. Its usual and main purpose and the intention to built it was to go as deep as possible and get much more clear results as with PI and 1 meter coil.

The idea behind PI in combination with magnetometer was just for better discrimination because PI usual is all-metal.
But this integrated magnetometer could be perfect to see on the drawn map also ground-structures - but I guess to make that working, the magnetometer must provide an extra output channel - or the output of the SSP is already clear enough.

Also keep in mind that you need a second person (which will become automatically a danger, the more precious is the found treasure) to use the 1m frame, because walking inside of it, means detecting the electronic box. hahaha

The Nexus is a cool motion-detector with good balanced coils but for your described tasks, even the largest Nexus coils are still too small.
Cheapest solution for you could be to get a second hand PI with 1m coil for 500 Euros = 1000 Leva's (directly from Bulgaria) and test it. I would send a mail to Detech and ask them for a special offer and you can even write that you will send it back after testing. And if you are satisfied you will keep it and buy from them the profi version or the 2 meter coil etc. - so it's a win-win-situation for both.

btw. Minelab is the profi for PI-detectors but thats all about gold-nuggets and their largest coil might be 35 cm? Check the website - their PI-circuits are pretty highly developed meanwhile, also thanks to the Australian treausure-hunters who just wanna have every year the newest and best equipment! hahaha

You also can check out and write a mail personally to:
https://www.dedektorburada.com/
This is in Istanbul a reliable MD-onlineshop where you can ask if they have some second hand DeepHunter or Jeohunter with 1m coil. If you drive to Istanbul you can get one to take with you for 500 Euros, because of the worse economic situation and huge inflation in Tuerkiye, where everyone needs to sell a lot stuff for the own surviving. But I guess they also can send it as a huge parcel to you, it might arrive within one or two weeks.

But better first get a PI so you have this "problem" solved - otherwise you might not be able to compare such 1m coil detectors and their special features good enough concering your special tasks and how fine or easy it is to work with them under real conditions.

[99thpercentile]

good evening, a technical question that is close to my heart, I would like to know how can we convert signals from any metal detector and / or magnetometer, resistivity meter into data that can be integrated and read by software 3D as for example the "3D visualizer" of okm which is a software written in Borland. I take for example, a simple detector, i.e. the surf master P.I, where to take the data and where to reinject them to transmit them to a PC to view them on a graphics software and what are the file extensions accepted by the graphics software , is it possible to convert these file extensions so that they are accepted from one software to another, ex: surfer , V3d , monMX , RES2D unv , RES3D inv , GRD HD 3D , Oasis montaj , SURFSEIS , etc., I would like a basic diagram in order to understand the migration of useful data from a given detector to a graphic software, thank you

The most frustrating part about hobbyist and military metal detectors for me as a geophysicist is that they are still essentially analog output devices where the operator is listening for the whee-whee sound. In geophysics as applied to landmine, unexploded ordnance (UXO), and improvised explosive device (IED) detection all of our metal detectors for almost 25 years utilize the concept of digital geophysical mapping (DGM). An operator could be deaf and it wouldn't matter to us since the sensor output is saved along with the exact time and position of the measurement. Since selective availability (SA) was turned off for the global positioning system (GPS) in 2001, every survey done for any of the applications listed above utilized centimeter accurate satellite positioning. The idea of trying to find items in real time by the sound of the whee-whee seems ludicrous to me. I'm not sure how to bring the industry into the past, not the present, of geophysical instrumentation.

All of the metal detectors currently used for UXO detection fall under the advanced geophysical classification (AGC) banner. The instruments are time domain electromagnetic induction (TDEM) sensors with a sufficient number of time gates (~27+) to fully characterize the target decay curve. The receivers all have three orthogonal coils so that we can completely characterize the target response. A few of the systems have multiple orientation transmitter coils. With these systems we can detect 100% of the targets in the ground, discriminate 100% of the targets as UXO or non-UXO, and then classify 100% of the UXO targets by the exact model of UXO, depth to the target, and the orientation in three dimensions of the targets. I can't find a single hobbyist metal detector that will record all of the data at a reasonable rate (minimum 10 Hz, ideally 20 Hz) with a GPS position and time stamp. The Minelab CTX 3030 is the closest to a real geophysical instrument but it only saves the GPS log file and location of any marked targets, it doesn't save any of the data. I do have CEIA CMD CIED unit that saves the sensor output and GPS position, but only at 1 Hz.



I have attached one picture of a Geonics EM61-MK2 time domain electromagnetic induction (TDEM) metal detector being used on a project I led on Wake Island in 2015 as well as plotted data from the instrument. We also utilized a Trimble 5700 RTK GNSS base and rover for real time positioning. Geomar Software makes a real time display software for this instrument so you can see results as you collect. This is 15 year old technology in geophysics. The last time I went to Wake Island in 2019 I used a GapEOD UltraTEM-III six receiver array (3m wide by 1 m long TX coil and 6 three component receiver coils) towed by a UTV.

[ivconic]

90% of the sites i've been visiting in last 35 years are like this:





99% of the desired finds that i am searching for are like this:




50% of situations where risking serious injury or even life; I hold a branch or a convenient part of the rock with one hand and hold the detector with the other hand and check a hard-to-reach place with it.
In the described situations and desired findings; the only thing that finishes my job is the "whee-whee" detector, conditionally it is as light, small and convenient as possible.
XP Deus with its 890 grams fits pretty well into that picture.
I don't see a way to ever do anything with those (from your photos) "baby strollers" in such places?
So, every device for finding metal has its purpose.
People who work in that industry and who decide to make such a product; they are definitely not stupid and they definitely know what they are doing.

[AK48]

bonjour,tres interessant,je vois que le sujet devient pointu,merci de votre collaboration,entre nous,est ce que vous ne me vendriez pas votre cerveau,histoire d'augmenter mon savoir dans le domaine(je plaisante)ces donn?es sur les detecteurs de metaux classiques sont pour moi une nouveaut?,quand aux GPR,j'ai d?j? ?tudi? cette possibilit? mais le detecteur de m?taux classique m'est plus adapt? pour ce que je recherche,n?anmoins il me faudra la technologie radar de sol (GPR) pour la recherche de cavit?s et de structures dans le sous-sol mais je pense que cet appareil est r?serv? aux g?ologues et arch?ologues du ? la complexit? de traduire ce que me dit le logiciel,je crois aussi savoir qu'il faudrait plusieurs antennes pour atteindre la profondeur maximale et qu'en g?n?ral il ne sondent pas au del? de quatres metres, je crois aussi savoir que le GPR est tributaire du taux d'eau dans le sol et de la nature du sol ainsi que de sa plan?it? , on ne peut pas l'utiliser sur en montagne sur des versants abrupts , que pensez-vous de l'AEMP14 de fabrication sovi?tique (https://landviser.com/equipment/aemp-14/) et de son remplacant:le GEOVIZER (https://sibergeo.com/portfolio-item/geovizer_u/?lang=en) ? et (https://www.geotech1.com/forums/show...ew-russian-GPR), je pense que l'AEMP14 est ?fficace mais trop long c'est pour cela qu'il ? ?t? remplac? par le GEOVIZER
quand ? moi je recherche la compr?hension et la conception d'un magn?tometre DIY simple avec imagerie pour les cavit?s et/ou l'ajout d'imagerie ? un detecteur pulse induction
merci

[AK48]

hello!sorry i forget translate

hello, very interesting, I see that the subject is getting sharp, thank you for your collaboration, between us, would you not sell me your brain, just to increase my knowledge in the field (just kidding) these data on detectors classic metal detectors are new to me, as for GPRs, I have already studied this possibility but the classic metal detector is more suitable for me for what I am looking for, nevertheless I will need ground radar technology (GPR) to the search for cavities and structures in the basement but I think that this device is reserved for geologists and archaeologists due to the complexity of translating what the software tells me, I also believe I know that it would take several antennas to reach the maximum depth and that in general they do not probe beyond four meters, I also believe that the GPR is dependent on the rate of water in the ground and the nature of the ground as well as its flatness, we cannot use it on in the mountains on steep slopes, what do you think of the Soviet-made AEMP14 (https://landviser.com/equipment/aemp-14/) and its replacement: the GEOVIZER (https://sibergeo.com/portfolio-item/ geovizer_u/?lang=en)? and (https://www.geotech1.com/forums/show...ew-russian-GPR), I think the AEMP14 is effective but too long that's why it was replaced by the GEOVIZER
as for me, I am looking for the understanding and design of a simple DIY magnetometer with imaging for cavities and/or the addition of imaging to a pulse induction detector
thank you

[jeep6789]

ok

[99thpercentile]

I do surveys all the time with pulse induction metal detectors for DGM. The most common on is the Geonics EM61-MK2, which has a depth of investigation of approximately 3 m. The more technically correct name for this type of instrument is time domain electromagnetic induction (TDEM). I did a survey last summer over a 240 acre site with the LOUPE TDEM instrument which has a depth of investigation of approximately 25 m for geologic mapping. I have done many surveys with the GapEOD UltraTEM III TDEM array which has a 3m by 1 m transmitter coil and six three component receiver coils. This system can do advanced geophysical classification (AGC) to detect, discriminate, and classify and unexploded ordnance (UXO) in the top 3 m. All of this is standard practice in near surface geophysics. No one would use an analog instrument without data logging capability for professional work.

hello!sorry i forget translate

hello, very interesting, I see that the subject is getting sharp, thank you for your collaboration, between us, would you not sell me your brain, just to increase my knowledge in the field (just kidding) these data on detectors classic metal detectors are new to me, as for GPRs, I have already studied this possibility but the classic metal detector is more suitable for me for what I am looking for, nevertheless I will need ground radar technology (GPR) to the search for cavities and structures in the basement but I think that this device is reserved for geologists and archaeologists due to the complexity of translating what the software tells me, I also believe I know that it would take several antennas to reach the maximum depth and that in general they do not probe beyond four meters, I also believe that the GPR is dependent on the rate of water in the ground and the nature of the ground as well as its flatness, we cannot use it on in the mountains on steep slopes, what do you think of the Soviet-made AEMP14 (https://landviser.com/equipment/aemp-14/) and its replacement: the GEOVIZER (https://sibergeo.com/portfolio-item/ geovizer_u/?lang=en)? and (https://www.geotech1.com/forums/show...ew-russian-GPR), I think the AEMP14 is effective but too long that's why it was replaced by the GEOVIZER
as for me, I am looking for the understanding and design of a simple DIY magnetometer with imaging for cavities and/or the addition of imaging to a pulse induction detector
thank you