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  • Oretron Info

    I gathered the following information during my research into geophysical methods, which utilize or are related in some way to the electrochemical actions that take place around metals in the Earth. In passing this information along, I am neither condemning nor condoning this particular method of prospecting. It is interesting to me, but I’ve not had an opportunity to actually try it, for myself, on a vein or ore body. From just what I have learned about it, I would say it is probably a valid method of geophysical exploration, and might be worthy of further refinement or melding with other more advanced technologies of today. (Perhaps that’s already been done, I don’t know.)


    The Oretron is a passive geophysical prospecting tool. That is, it does not involve injecting a signal (or explosion) either into the ground or into the air. Also, it could be considered among those devices in the category of “conventional geophysical prospecting instrumentation”. By conventional, I mean the data recorded by the operator/observer is in NO way dependent on “subjective interpretation”. The responses (readings) from this device come from an ordinary D’Arsonval, or digital voltmeter. (In simple terms, this instrument/method has nothing to do with the art of dowsing.)


    I first learned of the Oretron from someone who reads these forums, but does not choose to post on them. (I often get communications of this nature, and many times the contacts are quite worthwhile.) Then, I researched a little more, and found that an article appeared in Popular Mining Magazine, September/October 1989, by the same name “The Oretron”. Charles L. Butler of Bodfish, California wrote the article, and describes in good detail the attributes of the Oretron. I will not include a lot of directly quoted material from that article, simply because it is not ethical, nor is it legal. Anyone wishing to learn more specifics about the Oretron, can contact the publisher, Action Mining Services, and no doubt obtain a back issue, the same as I did.


    In essence, the basic premise of the Oretron is that “most” all bodies of ore generate, or otherwise produce, a voltage potential. This voltage, can subsequently be measured over the surface of the ground, and thus provides information for the tracing of these minerals and ore bodies. (Perhaps this method is directly related to, or is exactly like that which is called Self-Potential. I’m not exactly sure, but I’m sure Steve Ryland could clarify the point for us.)


    The basic theory surrounding the Oretron, is that two dissimilar metallic materials, when exposed to the proper electrolyte, produce a small voltage due to the galvanic action. In the case of an ore body, the vein or ore body is one metallic material, and the surrounding soil or rock is the other. The addition of the natural underground moisture (and miscellaneous other chemicals and acids) provide the proper electrolyte to facilitate the galvanic voltage. An ore body, which is involved in this sort of galvanic activity, takes on a definite polarity, from top to bottom. Thus, there is a specific current flow, and hence, lines of potential that may be measured on the surface above the ore body. The Oretron then, in its simplest configuration is merely a sensitive DC voltmeter, probably a DVM, utilizing today’s technology, and a couple of probe devices for connecting to the soil. These probe devices, in order to provide accurate readings are not merely metal rods stuck in the ground. They must be NonPolarizing Electrodes, otherwise you will get erroneous readings, larger than what you are looking for, from the contact voltages produced by your probes (not to mention the fact that the meter reading will “never” settle down).


    There are certain ore bodies, which in a very pure state, do not corrode (in and of themselves) and thus will not produce these galvanic voltages. Gold is one, and Platinum is another. However, it is rare that these minerals are found in this pure state, and are generally found in combination with other base minerals that do corrode and will produce the galvanic activity.


    To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever produced and sold commercially, something called an Oretron. I believe individual prospectors and miners constructed any that were ever used. In the article by Mr. Butler, he talks about first being introduced to the device in 1957, I rather imagine the idea and theory for such a device is much older than even that. Anyone wishing to construct one of these devices should probably contact Action Mining, and obtain a back issue, as I referenced above. There are enough details in the article to construct an Oretron, complete with the NonPolarizing Electrodes.


    I hope this is adequate information for anyone who was interested in this topic.

  • #2
    Re: Oretron Info

    thanks sam-


    interesting---perhaps you comment---how about carbon


    for the nonpolarizing electrodes ?????


    reg-rick


    >I gathered the following information during my research into geophysical methods, which utilize or are related in some way to the electrochemical actions that take place around metals in the Earth. In passing this information along, I am neither condemning nor condoning this particular method of prospecting. It is interesting to me, but I’ve not had an opportunity to actually try it, for myself, on a vein or ore body. From just what I have learned about it, I would say it is probably a valid method of geophysical exploration, and might be worthy of further refinement or melding with other more advanced technologies of today. (Perhaps that’s already been done, I don’t know.)


    >The Oretron is a passive geophysical prospecting tool. That is, it does not involve injecting a signal (or explosion) either into the ground or into the air. Also, it could be considered among those devices in the category of “conventional geophysical prospecting instrumentation”. By conventional, I mean the data recorded by the operator/observer is in NO way dependent on “subjective interpretation”. The responses (readings) from this device come from an ordinary D’Arsonval, or digital voltmeter. (In simple terms, this instrument/method has nothing to do with the art of dowsing.)


    >I first learned of the Oretron from someone who reads these forums, but does not choose to post on them. (I often get communications of this nature, and many times the contacts are quite worthwhile.) Then, I researched a little more, and found that an article appeared in Popular Mining Magazine, September/October 1989, by the same name “The Oretron”. Charles L. Butler of Bodfish, California wrote the article, and describes in good detail the attributes of the Oretron. I will not include a lot of directly quoted material from that article, simply because it is not ethical, nor is it legal. Anyone wishing to learn more specifics about the Oretron, can contact the publisher, Action Mining Services, and no doubt obtain a back issue, the same as I did.


    >In essence, the basic premise of the Oretron is that “most” all bodies of ore generate, or otherwise produce, a voltage potential. This voltage, can subsequently be measured over the surface of the ground, and thus provides information for the tracing of these minerals and ore bodies. (Perhaps this method is directly related to, or is exactly like that which is called Self-Potential. I’m not exactly sure, but I’m sure Steve Ryland could clarify the point for us.)


    >The basic theory surrounding the Oretron, is that two dissimilar metallic materials, when exposed to the proper electrolyte, produce a small voltage due to the galvanic action. In the case of an ore body, the vein or ore body is one metallic material, and the surrounding soil or rock is the other. The addition of the natural underground moisture (and miscellaneous other chemicals and acids) provide the proper electrolyte to facilitate the galvanic voltage. An ore body, which is involved in this sort of galvanic activity, takes on a definite polarity, from top to bottom. Thus, there is a specific current flow, and hence, lines of potential that may be measured on the surface above the ore body. The Oretron then, in its simplest configuration is merely a sensitive DC voltmeter, probably a DVM, utilizing today’s technology, and a couple of probe devices for connecting to the soil. These probe devices, in order to provide accurate readings are not merely metal rods stuck in the ground. They must be NonPolarizing Electrodes, otherwise you will get erroneous readings, larger than what you are looking for, from the contact voltages produced by your probes (not to mention the fact that the meter reading will “never” settle down).


    >There are certain ore bodies, which in a very pure state, do not corrode (in and of themselves) and thus will not produce these galvanic voltages. Gold is one, and Platinum is another. However, it is rare that these minerals are found in this pure state, and are generally found in combination with other base minerals that do corrode and will produce the galvanic activity.


    >To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever produced and sold commercially, something called an Oretron. I believe individual prospectors and miners constructed any that were ever used. In the article by Mr. Butler, he talks about first being introduced to the device in 1957, I rather imagine the idea and theory for such a device is much older than even that. Anyone wishing to construct one of these devices should probably contact Action Mining, and obtain a back issue, as I referenced above. There are enough details in the article to construct an Oretron, complete with the NonPolarizing Electrodes.


    >I hope this is adequate information for anyone who was interested in this topic.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Oretron Info

      >thanks sam-


      >interesting---perhaps you comment---how about carbon


      >for the nonpolarizing electrodes ?????


      >reg-rick


      You know, the thought of using carbon crossed my mind also, but I never tried it so I don't know what we would get.


      One thing, if the soil was very hard, rocky or compacted, the carbon rods would probably be damaged rather easily when inserting into the ground. I don't think the probes have to be very deep though, so it might be worth trying.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Oretron Info

        indeed--carbon rods from arc welder----but there


        is better--in the steam vaporizer mfg. kaz---


        they have/had a carbon ceramic material---it lasted


        orders of magnetude longer than competitors stainless


        steel----if you ever see or use these type the crust


        (mostly calcium) buildup ----the stuff like rock...


        used pliers tograb around and rotate to clean--the


        carbon ceramic rods took this...


        reg-rick


        >>thanks sam-


        >>interesting---perhaps you comment---how about carbon


        >>for the nonpolarizing electrodes ?????


        >>reg-rick


        >You know, the thought of using carbon crossed my mind also, but I never tried it so I don't know what we would get.


        >One thing, if the soil was very hard, rocky or compacted, the carbon rods would probably be damaged rather easily when inserting into the ground. I don't think the probes have to be very deep though, so it might be worth trying.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Oretron Info

          >indeed--carbon rods from arc welder----but there


          >is better--in the steam vaporizer mfg. kaz---


          How are they used in the steam vaporizer? Just curious.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Oretron Info

            they slap 120vac across the water resivoir--


            cause heat/steam----have to add a little


            nahco3 or nacl to make conductive


            reg-rick


            >>indeed--carbon rods from arc welder----but there


            >>is better--in the steam vaporizer mfg. kaz---


            >How are they used in the steam vaporizer? Just curious.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Oretron Info

              hi again sam--


              had to go quick yesterday..


              the device has a chamber (which contains these 2


              electrodes) with an air jacket surrounding this


              for thermal insulation. this chamber/jacket


              assembly is placed into the tank containing water


              made conductive by addition of baking soda (sodium


              bicarbonate or salt)this water enters into the electrode chamber by way of a small orifice included


              in the plastic assy. for this purpose.120vac is


              applied across the electrodes--and because of the friction caused by the continual oscillatory


              movement of the ions--the water is caused to be


              heated---you might query on the dissosiation of


              the hoh into its constituants---my brain bone did..


              and my thought was that the 60hz happened so fast


              relative to the sluggish accumulation of hydrogen


              and oxygen that recombination occured every half


              cycle of that which had occured---the little buggers


              go back into solution before they can escape to the


              atmosphere---this was verified by personel at kaz...


              ?--how can the resultant emf measurements be


              justified---what reference can be used other


              than null for no electrochemical action ????


              maybe this is why no comertial (my spelling is


              the pits) units exist---too many variables (unknown and non-consistant) to make such a device of any


              practical value ????? if there was/is a box would


              look long and hard before plopping my money down


              on the table...


              reg-rick


              >they slap 120vac across the water resivoir--


              >cause heat/steam----have to add a little


              >nahco3 or nacl to make conductive


              >reg-rick


              >>>indeed--carbon rods from arc welder----but there


              >>>is better--in the steam vaporizer mfg. kaz---


              >>How are they used in the steam vaporizer? Just curious.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Oretron Info

                >?--how can the resultant emf measurements be


                >justified---what reference can be used other


                >than null for no electrochemical action ????


                I think the Oretron device/method requires the same patience and mapping procedures as any other "passive" method. An area that is to be searched would start out with a fairly accurate map. Then, at specific distances (intervals) a grid work of readings would be taken, and this data could be in tabular form, with a data point taken at each corresponding data location on the map (the grid).


                Once all the data points are taken, the tabular information could be transferred to the map, creating a grid work of voltage potentials. Next, I would draw lines between the points having the same potential, and thus you would produce survey lines of potential that might resemble elevation contour lines, which I'm sure you've seen on topo maps.


                Even then, the final conclusions would come down to the analysis stage, where you would need to evaluate the most likely concentrations for possible exploration by other methods.


                This "Oretron" method can not tell you the depth of a particular anomaly --so other methods would have to be employed to make this type of determination. The author of the article I referenced, suggests core drilling as a possible method.


                Rick, this method, and the required steps to be followed, is not unlike a Ground Resistance Survey utilizing the Wenner or Schlumberger arrangements of electrode placements and data gathering (or for that matter, most other types of "passive" methods). If you are not familiar with these methods, I can give you a very good site to visit, where you can become familiar with them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Oretron Info

                  no --not famililiar with these--


                  it is fairly obvious though--for the xy---if grid


                  is on closer centers 10' of 5' etc. the uncertainty


                  of position could be lessened---in the core samples


                  (not oretron--for the matrix would be disturbed--


                  perhaps even the first core would upset the others


                  in the imediate vesinity)the core samples with care


                  in techniqe and measure could yield some on the z


                  axis...the more a man can know the better---what is


                  the site you mention??? did you look at that site


                  marsh find----


                  reg-rick


                  >>?--how can the resultant emf measurements be


                  >>justified---what reference can be used other


                  >>than null for no electrochemical action ????


                  >I think the Oretron device/method requires the same patience and mapping procedures as any other "passive" method. An area that is to be searched would start out with a fairly accurate map. Then, at specific distances (intervals) a grid work of readings would be taken, and this data could be in tabular form, with a data point taken at each corresponding data location on the map (the grid).


                  >Once all the data points are taken, the tabular information could be transferred to the map, creating a grid work of voltage potentials. Next, I would draw lines between the points having the same potential, and thus you would produce survey lines of potential that might resemble elevation contour lines, which I'm sure you've seen on topo maps.


                  >Even then, the final conclusions would come down to the analysis stage, where you would need to evaluate the most likely concentrations for possible exploration by other methods.


                  >This "Oretron" method can not tell you the depth of a particular anomaly --so other methods would have to be employed to make this type of determination. The author of the article I referenced, suggests core drilling as a possible method.


                  >Rick, this method, and the required steps to be followed, is not unlike a Ground Resistance Survey utilizing the Wenner or Schlumberger arrangements of electrode placements and data gathering (or for that matter, most other types of "passive" methods). If you are not familiar with these methods, I can give you a very good site to visit, where you can become familiar with them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Oretron Info

                    >no --not famililiar with these--


                    Here is a site you can start with. I have another good one that I will post later.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Clarification (active / passive)

                      >Rick, this method, and the required steps to be followed, is not unlike a Ground Resistance Survey utilizing the Wenner or Schlumberger arrangements of electrode placements and data gathering (or for that matter, most other types of "passive" methods). If you are not familiar with these methods, I can give you a very good site to visit, where you can become familiar with them.


                      Ground Resistance surveys, utilizing the Wenner or Schlumberger probe arrangements are "active", in as much as a constant current is applied to the ground under test. Nevertheless, a grid and mapping arrangement is usually what is required to make the final survey and analysis. Sorry, if I confused you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        thanks much---n/t

                        thanks much--


                        >>no --not famililiar with these--


                        >Here is a site you can start with. I have another good one that I will post later.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Geophysical Intro Information

                          Here is probably the best site I have ever found for learning the basics of Geophysical Exploration. It is a large site, and covers all the popular conventional methods and instrumentation.


                          Studying the material at this site will be worth your investment of time, especially if you are not familiar with these basic methods. They describe things without the introduction of a lot of the underlying math, so it makes for a pretty easy read.


                          Enjoy....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Geophysical Intro Information

                            thanks again--just got back from the first one...


                            had intention of a jest--to say what is for desert---


                            but after see post---(beat you to punch)---oh


                            that was an apetizer----my interest is in the technical--but still looked at the three sites


                            (archiological)they say--me ?????120mhz ducer for


                            gpr---say on tara--no find detail----very interesting


                            non the less---this is part why ????over there they


                            no like md...many more stringent laws---???? me


                            agree....probably not---a mans land is his...


                            oh well--just confirms my conclution of yesteryear--


                            a man can study sand for a lifetime.....


                            and know nothing about sand.....


                            thanks again-rick


                            >Here is probably the best site I have ever found for learning the basics of Geophysical Exploration. It is a large site, and covers all the popular conventional methods and instrumentation.


                            >Studying the material at this site will be worth your investment of time, especially if you are not familiar with these basic methods. They describe things without the introduction of a lot of the underlying math, so it makes for a pretty easy read.


                            >Enjoy....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Geophysical Intro Information

                              too much--looked and dont think carl has a link


                              to this--maybe he add one---can this site be


                              downloaded---would be nice reference...


                              reg-rick


                              >Here is probably the best site I have ever found for learning the basics of Geophysical Exploration. It is a large site, and covers all the popular conventional methods and instrumentation.


                              >Studying the material at this site will be worth your investment of time, especially if you are not familiar with these basic methods. They describe things without the introduction of a lot of the underlying math, so it makes for a pretty easy read.


                              >Enjoy....

                              Comment

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