Comparison of Overhauser and Cesium

[Don]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

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• Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret - Don 10/03/99
  
  
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[Don]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

>RE: "...if 18KHZ is optimum for finding Copper (Why he bothered doing the calcs for a relatively useless metal like copper instead of Gold I don't understand), what would be the optimum frequency for finding Gold?"


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It is not optimized for copper. The frequency (range) selected has everything to do with optimizing and compromizing the design parameters to achieve the desired functions most reasonably, and nothing at all to do with a specific metal. The frequency could as well have been 20 kHz or 16.999 kHz, or less. This is not a MFD type magic frequency device.


If this post shows up more than once, I apologize in advance. I seem to get into trouble when I try to "preview" a post.

[Don]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

>RE: "...if 18KHZ is optimum for finding Copper (Why he bothered doing the calcs for a relatively useless metal like copper instead of Gold I don't understand), what would be the optimum frequency for finding Gold?"


------------------


It is not optimized for copper. The frequency (range) selected has everything to do with optimizing and compromizing the design parameters to achieve the desired functions most reasonably, and nothing at all to do with a specific metal. The frequency could as well have been 20 kHz or 16.999 kHz, or less. This is not a MFD type magic frequency device.


If this post shows up more than once, I apologize in advance. I seem to get into trouble when I try to "preview" a post.

[Don]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

>RE: "...if 18KHZ is optimum for finding Copper (Why he bothered doing the calcs for a relatively useless metal like copper instead of Gold I don't understand), what would be the optimum frequency for finding Gold?"


------------------


It is not optimized for copper. The frequency (range) selected has everything to do with optimizing and compromizing the design parameters to achieve the desired functions most reasonably, and nothing at all to do with a specific metal. The frequency could as well have been 20 kHz or 16.999 kHz, or less. This is not a MFD type magic frequency device.


If this post shows up more than once, I apologize in advance. I seem to get into trouble when I try to "preview" a post.

[rick]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

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[rick]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

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[rick]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

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[Carl]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

>Secondly and more important, if 18KHZ is optimum for finding Copper (Why he bothered doing the calcs for a relatively useless metal like copper instead of Gold I don't understand), what would be the optimum frequency for finding Gold?


I don't think he was saying 18KHz is the optimum copper frequency. It appears that he pulled 18KHz out of the bag and then showed it to be acceptable for copper, and only from a skin depth perspective. (He also showed 100KHz to be acceptable as well.) Skin depth is important for good amplitude response.


He did not consider the phase response of the target vs. frequency, which is just as important. This aspect will determine sensitivity and the ability to discriminate. He also did not account for earth penetration vs. frequency, esp. under mineralized ground conditions.


There are a lot of things to consider when choosing the frequency, and Rick's approach of having several makes sense. I plan to eventually use a multi-frequency method with sampler and DSP so that I can see the response of a target to several different frequencies simultaneously. I think this is the approach Minelab uses.


- Carl

[Carl]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

>Secondly and more important, if 18KHZ is optimum for finding Copper (Why he bothered doing the calcs for a relatively useless metal like copper instead of Gold I don't understand), what would be the optimum frequency for finding Gold?


I don't think he was saying 18KHz is the optimum copper frequency. It appears that he pulled 18KHz out of the bag and then showed it to be acceptable for copper, and only from a skin depth perspective. (He also showed 100KHz to be acceptable as well.) Skin depth is important for good amplitude response.


He did not consider the phase response of the target vs. frequency, which is just as important. This aspect will determine sensitivity and the ability to discriminate. He also did not account for earth penetration vs. frequency, esp. under mineralized ground conditions.


There are a lot of things to consider when choosing the frequency, and Rick's approach of having several makes sense. I plan to eventually use a multi-frequency method with sampler and DSP so that I can see the response of a target to several different frequencies simultaneously. I think this is the approach Minelab uses.


- Carl

[Carl]

Re: Challenging Technical Question about the Radiometer Ferret

>Secondly and more important, if 18KHZ is optimum for finding Copper (Why he bothered doing the calcs for a relatively useless metal like copper instead of Gold I don't understand), what would be the optimum frequency for finding Gold?


I don't think he was saying 18KHz is the optimum copper frequency. It appears that he pulled 18KHz out of the bag and then showed it to be acceptable for copper, and only from a skin depth perspective. (He also showed 100KHz to be acceptable as well.) Skin depth is important for good amplitude response.


He did not consider the phase response of the target vs. frequency, which is just as important. This aspect will determine sensitivity and the ability to discriminate. He also did not account for earth penetration vs. frequency, esp. under mineralized ground conditions.


There are a lot of things to consider when choosing the frequency, and Rick's approach of having several makes sense. I plan to eventually use a multi-frequency method with sampler and DSP so that I can see the response of a target to several different frequencies simultaneously. I think this is the approach Minelab uses.


- Carl

[Sam Scafferi]

Re: Torsion Fields

I've seen some of the references, and even brought up a couple of the sites, but really haven't had the time to study it in any depth.

One site indicated that it was not a particularly new concept, so perhaps it's already been "kicked around" some by the scientific community, however, I'm not aware of any other site references --other than those on the "Pro" side of the concept. (That doesn't mean there aren't any out there.)

As I get more time, I'll try and poke around and see what I can find out, from sources other than those which we already know about.

Carl and Evan may have some info on the subject also, and will share it with us.

Naturally, there are a great many theories and hypotheses out there, and some may be able to be advanced to axioms, with the correct amount of testing and analysis. However, just because something sounds like it is already validated, because of the terminology associated with it, doesn't mean it IS validated. We have a shining example of that sort of fallacy in a very close neighbor of ours.

[Carl]

Torsion fields

I took a quick look at a couple of on-line torsion field articles. What I read was some highly contradictory statements followed by leaps into the metaphysical realm, such as "pyramid energy" and dowsing. Like most pseudoscience, it appears as if some people are taking legitimate science research (esp. leading edge and poorly understood by the public) and contorting it to support their superstitious beliefs. I'll be a bit more receptive of this kind of stuff when it starts getting published in mainstream peer-reviewed journals instead of the fringe "free energy" publications.

- Carl

[Don Pierce]

Comparison of Overhauser and Cesium

I am looking for any papers on the comparison of Overhauser versus Cesium magnetometers. Nice if it was objective and not a manufacturer publication

[Greg Hollyer]

Re: Comparison of Overhauser and Cesium

Hi Don:

In response to your request for a paper that compares Overhauser and Cesium magnetometers, you may be interested in a 15 page technical paper that we recently published.

The paper is entitled, "A Brief Overview of Quantum Magnetometers" and is intended to provide as objective as possible an assessment of the various systems and their capabilities. We have tried to keep the commercial "spin" to a minimum, although, it does of course, have some discussion of specific GEM systems.

You can access the paper by visiting www.gemsys.ca and selecting the "Paper on Quantum Magnetometers" link in the "Whats New from GEM" section.

Sincerely,
G. Hollyer, M.Sc.(Eng)., P.Eng.
GEM Systems Inc. Advanced Magnetometers



GEM Systems Inc. Advanced Magnetometers

[Gavin Kohl]

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