Boat towed mags

[Larry Stier]

Shawn,

You won't find any major finds recorded by me or any other legitimate TH'er on these forums.

Carl's article had no scientific basis whatsoever. It was pure philosophy. If you want to go with the flow as to what somebody else has already invented and published in scientific books... go right ahead... your loss not mine.

Uh-huh! MDs have a what percentage rate of trash-to-treasure? You are sweeping how many square inches of seach area? How deep does your best MD find treasure?

How about coming over here. You won't get a demo or even a test shot. I only do real TH'ing for gold, not follow the leader for anything your MD beeps at. If I did come over there though, you better believe I'll contact you to. How many "real" treasure hunters do you know Shawn? Now, how many "real" treasure hunters do you believe only use conventional TH'ing equipment? You will not find the answer to either of those questions on any Internet forum... especially this one. Design build, cost, communicate, and theorize till your heart is content, but when you are ready to find treasures instead of reading el crappo... well, I guess you are not going to lower yourself below your mentor for another twenty or thirty years, will you?

Scam, fraud, and suckers are fifty-cent copout terms for those of you scientific wannabes who can't redirect your mindsets away from conventional and traditional methods. You have really been brain washed on MDs haven't you?

Don't get me wrong Shawn, I am neither praising nor condemning anyone's MD or LRL. I am however, amazed by the throngs gravitating towards someone who writes a technical article, draws some far-fetched conclusions based upon no factual experience whatsoever, and then condemns the item and its manufacturer based upon those same invalid conclusions. If you are stating that this procedure is scientific and you will follow it through thick and thin then please do tell us where you went to college so we won't send our kids and grandkids there. God help us all.

As I stated previously, Carl's past track record at particular LRL shows has given him "The Only Person in History Not Welcomed Anymore" award.
Porn is only for those who don't get enough at home, those having a sick mindset, frustrated TH'ers and/or tech writers, or those who are still wondering about their ****** identity. I don't have problems with any of the above... do you Shawn?

As far as your TH'ing success Shawn, I really don't care. Whether you have or haven't found treasures does not mean that you are or you are not a decent/ethical person. Choosing to follow and defend something like Carl's article tells me more about you than you could ever tell me anyway.

Larry Stier

[Shawn]

Re: Carl - Your VR-800 Philosophic Analysis

If you do adequate research you shouldn't have to blindly sweep thousands of square feet in search of something.
If a person isn't sure of exactly where something is than they can use someting called a magnetometer and other equpiment such as GPR units, etc. these are alot more trustworthy than something that was described by Georgio Agricola five hundred years ago as being related to the "black arts". As far as the following goes:

** How many "real" treasure hunters do you know Shawn? Now, how many "real" treasure hunters do you believe only use conventional TH'ing equipment? You will not find the answer to either of those questions on any Internet forum... especially this one. Design build, cost, communicate, and theorize till your heart is content, but when you are ready to find treasures instead of reading el crappo... well, I guess you are not going to lower yourself below your mentor for another twenty or thirty years, will you?**

Doesn't everyone consider themselves to be a "real" treasurehunter? If a treasurehunter is worth his salt and is going to use not only his money but also those of investors he better damn well know how to use his equipment and use equipment that is known to be reliable by the industry. Would you or anyone else for that fact really let thousands if not millions in time and investors money ride on the fact that you put your trust and faith in a piece of equip. that only works for some people or some of the time (failure rate of around 50%), I nor any other reasonable person is going to do that. Perhaps your not reasonable.

By faith I can't make my car start without fuel, maybe you can. If so please share with the rest of us as this will solve the worlds energy problems. Thank god for science. Can you imagine what it would be like if you got on a plane and they told you they had a 50% success rate, or that the plane operates fine with some pilots and not others. I wouldn't get on nor would any REASONABLE PERSON.

As far as mentioning that LRL's are scams, and fraudulent - they are. People pray on people - thats life. If someone can dupe someone else you better believe they will especially when the almighty dollar is concerned. If the LRL works for you more power to you. The fact remains that they are not ONE-HUNDERD PERCENT completely reliable. If they were don't you think that the MD industry would embrace such a feat of science?


**As I stated previously, Carl's past track record at particular LRL shows has given him "The Only Person in History Not Welcomed Anymore" award.
Porn is only for those who don't get enough at home, those having a sick mindset, frustrated TH'ers and/or tech writers, or those who are still wondering about their ****** identity. I don't have problems with any of the above... do you Shawn?**

I'm not impotent if thats what your saying. They say men buy big guns for anatomical deficiencies. How big are your LRL rods? Ha, ha.

P.S. - Maybe you shouldn't send your kids to the U of A (must be the heat, its a dry heat).

[Jan]

Re: Carl - Your VR-800 Philosophic Analysis



Larry,

Just another schematic out of the same Dataheet.

Take schematic of VR-800 and drop the switch indicator LEDS and output capacitor.
Looks familiar ?

Well it is the VR-800 with an extra(!) feature namely a reset funtion (pin 2)

Jan

[Larry Stier]

Re: Carl - Your VR-800 Philosophic Analysis

Jan,

Sorry that your few months of research has given you such a negative attitude. Quite simply you are wrong! I have been using LRLs for 30 years, and I guess I am just the luckiest, or most intelligent, or have the best attitude, or most perceptive, or most gifted, or most naive, or most persistent, or most solid mindset, or whatever.

Out of the five LRLs I've owned in my life, only two of them did not find treasures. However, I didn't give them much of chance to prove themselves either, because I was heavily involved with the other LRLs that were consistently finding treasures.

Out of the three other LRLs that I did find treasures: Two were/are chemically loaded and I followed wherever they took/take me - I found treasures; another was a simple pendulum with a bait chamber and required pure dowsing to operate it - I found treasures.

NOW, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? Did I establish BENCHMARKS in my earlier years? You Betcha, and most of them are still there in three states! Did I bury treasures in my backyard as a TEST BED and experiment with that for years to see how each treasure evolves? You betcha! Did I tear every LRL apart to see what's inside. NOT EVEN! Did I perform double-blind test in order to prove that LRLs can't work because there is no textbook logic to back them up; the manufacturers were all scam artist; I wanted to sue each and every one of them to get money? Give me a break! The more we know the more we seem to discredit our own abilities.

Maybe I was just lucky in the manufacturers I picked and the LRLs I used to find treasures. After all three out of five is better than random chance. Maybe my first LRLs were made before the scam artist hit the markets. Oh gee, I forgot that I just purchased another LRL last November, and I'm just now finding treasures with it. Ah, maybe that's the answer! Patience, persistence, benchmarks, test beds, prior field experience, superior product support, and knowledge that I can find treasures with LRLs.
As far as the million bucks Jan, go right ahead with another man's game and protocols... see if you win. You might research the Randi website a little more and see for yourself just how that cool million is not exactly what you think it is.

You will find that most of the regulars (overly intelligent and educated electronics and scientific people who are very cheap) on this forum insist that a double-blind test is required before purchasing any LRL. Checking a LRL's CONSISTENT results in finding treasures seems to be the key phrase around here.

When was the last time you found a gold coin with your MD Jan? How about this for consistently finding treasures. When was the last time you found just five back-to-back treasures without hitting some trash between those five treasures? What is your MD manufacturers guaranteed ratio of trash-to-treasure. When was the last time you went straight to the treasure, recovered it, and went straight to the next treasure... consistently without some trash in-between? Does your MD manufacturer guarantee that too.

Anyone can own a MD and/or LRL. What you do with either of them is up to you. Remember, you cannot manufacture treasures if they are not there; you cannot find treasures if they are there unless you randomly scan every square inch of ground for the rest of your life with a MD. Good grief, that is a depressing thought. Even more depressing is the fact that your MD can only go so deep. What treasures have you missed with your MD?

Larry Stier

[Dennis Line]

Boat towed mags

Hi Everyone,
I'm new to all this but very interested. I was wondering, how do you control the depth of a boat towed mag. The places I would like to use one is only about 5 to 10 feet deep on average. Could you have it float on the surface? Also do most mags have only one coil in it or does it have two. And for my last question. Would one of the Fatquartersotfware kits work for my needs? If so what kit? Thank you in advance.

Regards,
Dennis



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[Jim Kennard]

Re: Boat towed mags

Dennis,

Magnetometer operation in shallow water: Float the sensor OR use several lines tied to a float that will limit the depth of the sensor below the surface of the water, at a safe distance from the bottom.

Coil type: Many of the manufacturers of Proton Precession Magnetometers are using a toroid coil for the sensor. Older sensors utilized multiple solenoid type coils oriented in different directions, which resulted in a overall larger body sensor package. The toroidal coil provides a similar capability for near optimum detection of the earths’magnetic field anywhere in the world. The signal produced in a solenoid type coil by a local magnetic field will vary greatly depending on the coils’ orientation to the angle of the earths’ magnetic field for a particular location in the world. There are available maps that show the intensity and angle of the earths’magnetic field for the world. Many manufacturers include this map in the User manual of their magnetometes.

Fatquarters kits: The Gradiometer kit may be a possible low cost magnetometer solution for you. See the article by Carl Moreland in the Projects part of this website on how to construct a Gradiometer using the Speake FGM-3 sensor distributed in the USA by Fatquarterssoftware. Also, you should review the previous discussions on this forum to understand any problems that other people that have built these units may have experienced.

[Brian B.]

Re: Boat towed mags

>Dennis,

>Magnetometer operation in shallow water: Float the sensor OR use several lines tied to a float that will limit the depth of the sensor below the surface of the water, at a safe distance from the bottom.


Jim,

How would you control the depth in deeper water such as 100-250'(30-80m)?

Thanks,
Brian B.

[Jim Kennard]

Re: Boat towed mags

Brian,

You will need to have a depth sensor of some type to know the depth of the mag sensor. The depth of the mag sensor will basically depend on the cable length, cable size, mag sensor size, use of a depressor, and towing speed. The only one of the above that you can control to maintain a particular depth is the towing speed. This is the inexpensive way to control depth of the mag sensor. However, there are more elaborate altitude control systems that are available which utilize a controlable depressor to maintain constant altitude. They are sometimes advertised in Sea Technology magazine, otherwise a search online may turn up a couple of these systems. However they may be quite expensive. Hope this helps. Regards, Jim




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[Brian B.]

Re: Boat towed mags

Jim/all,

Thanks for the input. My dive partner and I are about to jump into this Mag project with both feet so here is another question.

With a differential magnetometer how does one normally tell the altitude of the fish (I'd hate to miss a ripe target because our fish is flying in mid water)?

Since our prime operational envelope will be in the 150-250fsw range I'm thinking we will need some sort of depth feedback from the fish so we can control our tow speed and thus the depth. What are your thoughts on placing a pressure transducer in the fish and incorporating it into the data-stream up to the boat?

Thanks,
Brian B.



Weird things I build and do

[Brian B.]

Re: Boat towed mags

In my post above "Differential Mag" should have read "Proton Procession Gradiometer"...

Thanks,
Brian B.

[Jim Kennard]

Re: Boat towed mags

Brian,

Yes, you can use a pressure sensor and relate it to depth under the surface of the water. OR use a depth sounder (with an extended cable) to measure the distance from the bottom.

Another method that has been used where the depth is not too great (lets say 15M or less) is to have a separate line towing a heavy lead weight and connect the mag sensor several meters above the weight. This will keep the mag sensor quite close to the bottom but far enough away so as not to drag or hit obstructions on the bottom. However, I do not think that this is a very good method for deep towing.

Good luck searching. Jim



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