Practical Guidelines for building a Magnetometer by Hobbyists

[Sam Scafferi]

Dave, …you continue to expound on things; long past, which you incessantly twist around to meet your own warped agenda. You could be doing this just because you are a really stupid individual, however, I don’t think you’re that dumb. I’d rather believe you’re doing it on purpose just to somehow make yourself feel better since you are the proud owner of an E-scope piece of junk. Or, you remain “ticked” because after all your efforts, you still have been unsuccessful at removing me from the forums.

My dowsing talent has been tested countless times, and it remains today the same as it has always been. That is, when tested under controlled and monitored conditions, my results are completely consistent with ordinary “chance guessing”. Don’t forget, guessing can sometimes be correct.

Further, my results compare precisely with any other dowser’s results when that dowser submits to testing under controlled and monitored conditions, regardless of what sort of dowsing instrument or paraphernalia that might be used.

Therefore, in order to untwist my original statement, I think it went something like this; in the hands of any dowser, and when tested under controlled and monitored conditions, a bent coat hanger will locate equally well as an E-scope or any other commercial instrument you would like to use.

So, I suppose if you and Steve want to put on a demonstration where he illustrates how a bent coat hanger will perform equally as well as his E-scope, –go right ahead. I have no interest in witnessing such an event, since I already know the outcome, but you may find some others that might be interested. Good luck…

[Mark Pauls]

Re: Carl - Your VR-800 Philosophic Analysis

WAW

Now I am so very scared, just imagine when somebody starts to sell a PA-unit with two transistors arrange in puss-pull for below $3000.- as a big booster to the VR-800..... ALL TREASURE'S WILL BE FOUND IN ONE WEEK OR LESS.

Why do we not all build this simple 555 oscillator go out and try it, keep distance so they do not disturb each other (its powerfull you know). If it do not work we all have a good squarewave oscilliator or a dishwasher timer or whatever.

Against being stupid even all the worlds god's are fighting hopeless.

Mark

[Jan]

Re: Carl - Your VR-800 Philosophic Analysis

Larry,

You are right to say that you cannot find treasures when they are none.

I have never found a treasure because I never looked for one.
Also an MD is not the right instrument to find treasures.
The range is way to small to cover a large area in reasonable time.

That is the whole clue, there are no intruments that can find gold or treasure at arge ranges.

Sidescan not, ground penetrating radar not, magnetometer not ... and LRL not.

I think that a rate of 3 out of 5 will qualify you for the "Randi" test.
What do you care what Randi says.
You tell him that in an area of say 1 square mile you can find a kilo of buried gold 3 times out of 5 tries. (we are talking LONG range locators here)
You may add maximum depths or a rule that the gold may not be packet into other material.
What do you care who buried the gold and where, as long as they do not violate your rules.

Even when they do not hide any gold is no problem... because your machine will tell if there is gold or if there is no gold.
In the terms of the test you can always insist that they show the gold when you did not find it, so you know for sure they did not cheat you.

So, fill in the aplication form and get your one milion dollars.
Perhaps this sounds odd but I really hope you will find that gold and get the price.
I promise you, I will come over to USA to congratulate you in person and take you and your wife out for a diner.

Sofar I have only heard from LRL operators that they find gold/treasure all over the place.
Some even claim 100% hit rate.
However I never found a scratch of proof that anyone of them actually made it rich.
One of them even peddles oldfashioned electronic junk for ridiculous prices to make a living.
Who is going to sit in his basement to solder some junk together to sell it when he can be sitting in the his luxerious house talking with all the other rich LRL operators about how marvelous LRL are?

The only treasure hunters that made it rich I heard of found their treasure with proven electronic devices and a lot of work.

Sorry Larry, but I only heard vague excuses why LRL operators will not do a test.
If these things are any good then no test will be a problem.

So do the Randi test and make me have to buy a ticket to America.

Best regards,
Jan

[Dan DeQuille]

Not To Worry, Sam

Sam: No need to call names and fret. I do not wish to get involved arguing with you on a regular basis like before. I just thought I would try once more to see if you had changed your attitude at all about actually doing a fun but meaningful test with interested LRL'ers. You could simply have replied to my first post with a "No, thank you."
I must congratulate you and your supporters on achieving success with your basic goal of destroying interest in the LRL forums where there could be a free and trusting exchange of ideas.

[Jan]

Re: Jan

Larry,

It is true that I have never found treasure, found a lot of other stuff though.
Some of the stuff is from around 1600 but I would not call it treasure.
They are just nice things to have.

About the tests you talk about.
I hope you understand that I find it difficult to believe phenomena that cannot be reproduced when somebody is around that wants to see it also.
If this phenomen occurs in the same rate as when chancing it, then I do not know what is so special about the phenomen.

I mean,
Say I want to play a game of heads or tails with just one coin. (so there is 50% chance to guess it right)
Now I tell you that I have build an instrument that can predict beforehand what would come up, heads or tail.
Every time you ask me to demonstrate this instrument it turns out that the machine also only gets it 50% right.
So what use is this intrument ?

Are you going to believe me when I tell you that when you are not looking the machine gets it 100% right... or even 75% ?
I think not, and rightly so.

About the pictures.
These pictures are straight out of Signetic datasheet booklet I got years ago.
It shows you, in a sort of humerous way, how one can wire up this chip.

Dell just took one of these chips and wired it up in ist most basic configuration (the "washer timer").
Then he called it a microprocessor and claimed is would be running 3 frequencies
The 555 cannot run at 3 frequencies at the same time,
The chip was specially designed to run only one frequency.

He tells people you can find treasure with it and sells it for $1600.

With this scam I am really not going to believe in LRL anymore.

You ask me to believe in Santa Claus again.
Sorry, long ago I found out that he was in fact my nextdoor neighbour.

I hope you will find all the treasure you seek,

Best regards,
Jan

[Dell Winders]

Re: Lack of Credit

Jan, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. My post was in refrence to the Treasure finds made with the MFD that Carl Moreland invented or developed, and is giving away Free to those who are interested, with Carl's guarantee of performance, as described on this Geotech website.

Carl's product is not my design, or is it in any way assosciated with me.I stated the provable facts in my post about it's success, and nothing else.

Believe as you may, but I have always been open, and up front with LRL and MFD consumers that have taken the interest to inquire and learn about the problems and limitations, noting that Frequency Discrimination is a viable concept that myself and others have experimented with and used for 20 years, and which I sincerely believe begs the interest of capable electronic people to further the development. I make no apologies for offering Treasure Hunters the same primitive methods of Discrimination that I utilize in my own search for deep buried Treasures. You will find a link to Carl's review of the VR-800 on my own Home page, Treasure America.com in the consumer product review section for public viewing, plus Carl's previous comments. I have been much more fair and honest about LRL's and MFD than the Critics that base their attacks on assumptions, and present it as Scientific fact.

I'm sorry that my mention of people using Carl's MFD device being more successful thus far at finding treasure with it, than I have been with Ground Penetrating Radar should offend you, but it is a true and accurate statement which credits Carl Moreland. I don't understand why this should upset you?

With regard to Sam Scafferi, I have been publicly answering his same repeated questions over and over again for over 6 years since he singled me out to make slanderous attacks against a life long reputation of Honesty and integrity. Sam, has a very closed mind set, a self serving agenda, and a vendetta. Replies to Sam has proved to be a huge waste of time, forum space, and an exercise in futility. One answer to a simple question leads to another, then another, and another, in a never ending volume of the same repetitive, often irrevelant questions to which he already has received the same repetetive answers, over and over again. Sorry, discussions with Sam are no longer an option with me. It's unfair to expect it of me.

Thanks for your comments Jan. I understand where you are coming from. No offense is taken. Wishing you the best.

Dell, "On the Trail to Treasure"

[Sam Scafferi]

Re: Dell's Cop Out!

Jan, this is Dell's favorite dance step, and cop out.

The truth is, he never has answered the simple questions that I and others have put to him... but he has a million ways to dance around them.

I have a great idea, Jan... why don't you ask him the following question, then it won't be coming from me.

What possible influence could the output of the 555 have on distant targets, and why did you lie in your advertising stating that the device was transmitting three separate frequencies --when it clearly is not?

While we're on the topic, here are some other simple questions that Dell won't answer:

1.) If dowsing (and the ideomotor response that enables dowsing) has nothing to do with, and is not required to cause the L-rods that you hold to "indicate", then what as yet undiscovered force of nature is it that causes your L-rods to swing, pull, cross or otherwise indicate???

2.) If dowsing (and the ideomotor response that enables dowsing) has nothing to do with, and is not required to cause the L-rods that you hold to "indicate", then why do you recommend a simple full-view dowsing response test over a garden hose as a qualifying test to operate your MFD product???

3.) If you were privy to use and test MFD instruments that did not require the use of L-rods (and thus the "art of dowsing") for indications, why would you choose to NOT further that technology??? Instead, you choose to hamper and confuse the MFD concept by requiring that the operator use ordinary L-rods and rely on the error-prone ideomotor effect to produce your dowsing indications.

[Jan]

Re: Lack of Credit

Dell,

As I said, You get the credit you earned

A bunch of loosly connected sentences that are used to make a smokescreen will not help you here.

The fact is that the VR-800 is a scam and dealing with you should be done with the utmost care... better not at all.

I feel sorry for the people who bought this junk you sell.

My good man, you are a fraud that lacks the greatness to accept the fact that you have been caught.

Jan

[Jan]

Re: Dell's Cop Out!

Sam,

No need to do this.
The man will never answer these questions because it will expose his simple scam.

The man is just a cheap swindler.

The main thing is that people will know that he is a fraud and hopefully Carl will leave his article for some time on the web so wouldbe buyers can be warned.

Best regards
Jan

[Dell Winders]

Re: Jan

Jan, forgive my interruption of your discussion with Larry, but again my name is being played with a lot of derrogatory presumptions which you are crediting as being truth. Why?

As a Professional Treasure Hunter/Salvor for more than 30 years, having personally purchased and used in the field, practically every treasure detection device, gizmo, and gadget that has been on the market, including the most sophisticated electronics and methods, and being priveledged to have used high tech electronic inovations built and used privately, I would have to say that your expectaions for any affordable technology available to Treasure Hunters for locating and discriminating to precious metals at depth, far exceeds any reasonable expectations. At present a 1% locating and recovery of deep buried treasure is good odds. That's 1 sizable recovery for every 100 major excavations. When I started, the odds against locating a deep Treasure target and making the recovery were ten times that amount.

Treasure Hunters such as myself, use every method and technology we can afford to have available to us to improve those odds of loacating a Treasure which is feasible, which warrants the risk, expense and efforts to make a recovery.

For 20 years of my Treasure Hunting experience, the simple electronics, and primitive method of Frequency Discrimination devices have been tools which have aided considerably in reducing the odds of deep Treasure recovery to their present 1% or more chances. I am thankful for the inventor of the MFD, and know that it can be vastly improved. I am thourghly disgusted and disappointed with the dispicable egotistical attitude of Scientfic wannabe's who in their arrogance and faked appearance of superior intellect, disrespect the necessity for quality research and investigation and feel that they are somehow uniquely qualified and empowered to make judgement on people according to uninvestigated, inaccurate presumption and assumptions for embarking on, or embracing the character assination of another human being.

No Jan, I did not build the VR-800. I am responsible for putting it on the market under my name, and only after using it for over a year myself to understand the problems consumers would have in it's field use, did it go on the market.

As you already know from the mocking that Carl indulges for me in this forum, that I have little formal education and I know nothing about electronics except what I am told from electronics people like Carl and Sam, and they've demonstrated over the years that quite often on this subject, they appear to not have a clue of knowing what they are talking about. They often substitute presumptions and assumptions, for good investigation, research and fact, the same as you seem to be catering to now.

At the time I was providing the VR-800, years ago, it performed better in the field than the Function generators which were being resold at ridiculous profit with extraordinary advertising claims. I became competetive by selling, a lighter, more effecient discriminator at a lower price.

My expertise, if any, is in the Field use of Frequency Discriminators and Treasure Hunting & salvage in general. I do not know how to describe the internal componnents of an electronic device, nor do I intend to learn when there are enough book perfect electronics people greedily waiting to collect a large fee for their sometimes, not so perfect advise. The technical information that was presented in my literature at the time was provided to me by the manufacturer, an electronics person.

LRL's or MFD are not something you have to believe in. They will either work, or they won't. There is nothing to Frequency discrimination which mandates a belief system to make them work, only the interest to put forth the effort to learn, practice, understand the limitations, and correctly interpret the signals and analyze the data.

I don't comprehend the mentality of tech followers that are lost without a manual, or internet reference to allude to, and yet delight themselves in judgemental hypocricy towards a viewpoint different than that of their fraternity. It intrigues me to understand how you, or anyone, can look at Carl's photographs of a product, without knowing me, or anything about me, without bias, make a character analaysis with out investigation, and feel truthful in accusing me of running a scam? You have me at your advatage.

Dell, "On the Trail to Treasure"

[Jan]

Re: Jan

Dell,

Nice long post, but the main thing is that you claimed several things that are untrue and you knew they were untrue.
Like the 3 frequencies wich you knew it did not have.
You said it was microcontrolled, wich as you very well knew, it is not
This has nothing to do with knowledge, or formal education.

Your claim that the VR-800 performed better that function generators is rediculous.
A function generator can be set to provide the identical pulses as the 555.
A function generator can also provide other shaped pulses wich a 555 cannot.

Do not talk about rediculous prices, the VR-800 is a good example of this.

Do not talk about that you have to believe in LRL to make it work.
It is not a religon, it is supposed to be an instrument.
So it works or it does not work simple as that.

I can look at the photograph and the schematic to see what the instrument actually is.
A badly designed timer and nothing else.
By the way, try next time to use new Pervboard... without all the large holes in them.
When people pay hundreds of dollars for something they like new parts.

People can analyze your character by the way you answer, or fail to aswer, questions.
If you do not understand electronics, no problem, many people do not understand them.
But do not try to convince people you have designed a microcontrolled multifrequency intrument when in reality it is just a simple timer and some old copper wire.
People will think you are a cheat.


Jan

[Sam Scafferi]

Re: Still Making Claims – Why???

Okay, so you don’t know anything about electronics (no kidding), and 20 years ago you got some bum information from your local Radio/TV Serviceman, who built you a washing machine timer, and then told you it was a “treasure finder”.

However, now the ruse has been exposed for what it was, thanks to the VR-800 article. Why not just admit you were wrong, and start refunding all the money you took for these things? You’re always asking for genuine electronic assistance, and moaning that you never get any, –excuse me, but how much more genuine assistance could you get for FREE. Several people now, have graciously pointed out to you (in many different ways, some subtle, some not so subtle) that the 555 is not a micro-processor, it is not transmitting three separate frequencies, and it is not influencing distant targets, –no matter how much you believe it is.

Still, it is evident that in your most recent utterance, which I quote; ”…For 20 years of my Treasure Hunting experience, the simple electronics, and primitive method of Frequency Discrimination devices have been tools which have aided considerably in reducing the odds of deep Treasure recovery…, you are maintaining, and would currently wish others to believe, that somehow your “555 washing machine timer” has aided in the recovery of treasure.

Now that the VR-800 has been exposed for what it really is, why do you bother with the pretense that it is something other than what it is??? It should be crystal clear to you now that it never did act as an aid, and it still can’t today.

Give it up… the charade is over, you’re making yourself look even sillier by trying to hang onto it.

(Of course I suppose the refunds could more or less wipe you out… oh well, easy come, easy go.)

[Larry Stier]

Re: Jan

Jan,

Say "mooooooooo" and "come boss" one time for us. Congratulations! You have just been herded like cattle to the slaughter. You reacted exactly as the skeptics wanted you to... just as they have been brainwashing their followers for years. You have just condemned the entire LRL community based on the actions/reactions of one group within that community. Raised to a higher level, it's called profiling... profiling is illegal here in the U.S. Lawyers do it all the time though. Psych-out the jury by decreasing the credibility of their opponent's witnesses. It's no longer what is right or wrong, but who paints the better picture beyond a shadow of dowbt... ignorant jurors, ignorant decisions.

This is exactly why I speak for nobody else, except myself. I can absolutely say without a doubt that some LRLs work and work well... especially the one I use now (Bob Fitzgerald's PPL Treasure Finder). I'll even go further to say that all the LRLs I've ever used probably worked much better than I permitted them to work, but I was just too stupid to understand their complexities and interpreting their reactions.

I will NOT prove anything to anyone here or anywhere else. If you want proof, you'll have to goto one of the LRL manufacturers or dealers yourself. I've already posted here which manufacturer I use.

CONTRARY TO THE POPULAR MENTALITY, ALL THE PRETTY PICTURES, ALL THE SLAP ON THE BACK FOR A JOB WELL DONE, AND ALL THE CONDEMNING ARTICLES - LRLS DO WORK!! Deciding which ones do and don't is no longer my problem.

Larry Stier

[Mark Pauls]

Re: Jan

Thank you Dell

You have convinced me that you believe in this circuit as somthing that can add some effect to a LRL. This also makes me believe that at least some LRL are fake because if this can add any proven extra to any LRL with VR-800 ... the concept LRL do not exist. Then my doorbell should do 10 times better.

I am an Electronic engineer that fully understand the 555 and also have done a lot of experiments with sending different frequences through the ground and tryed to measure influence on metal in the ground. I must admit I used a function generator with saw, square and sinewaves that might be my failure. My result with a bandpass filtered receiver showed nothing even I used so strong signals that the worms crawled up from ground.

I must admit that even I have tried to be open to understand if LRL could be for real, you have done to much harm to this.

You are really a scam to those that might be able to find treasures in alternative ways, by selling this piece of junk.

I know it would be completely hopeless to continue this discussion with you, and I feel sorry for Carl because you are shaming some of the best on the web, regarding "normal, serious metal detecting".

You are misusing this side against some people that just wand to filter fact from fake, and I hope Carl would send a STOP signal and from this everybody will stop to answer you. I prefer to have a open discussions but there must be some minimal rules and you have passed them all.

Shame on you!

Mark

[Mark Pauls]

Sorry Dell 50 % of the shame was to Larry

Zzzzz......