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FGM-3 or FGM-3h for Carl Fluxgate Magnetometer?

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  • #16
    Hi,

    Just my pennyworth on this discussion.

    1. The specs of the FGM-3 specifies a field RANGE of +- 50 µT. This is NOT the resolution, it is just able to measure in a rather linear way a field RANGING from -50000nT to +50000nT.

    2. I read everywhere the importance of the sensor alignment and voltage regulation in a gradiometer configuration and it is asolutely TRUE. However, these are not the only conditions to get a maximized precision. These sensors are also sensitive to temperature, i.e. the frequency changes not only with field value of a preferred vector, it also changes with temperature. This fact is not well documented in the specs of the FGM-3, it just says that they have a 'low temperature sensitivity'.
    See the literal text in this application note:
    "However for applications such as earth field magnetometry or where extremely small field variations are being studied, supply voltage variation needs to be reduced to a level which permits the temperature coefficient of the device to be the limiting performance factor."
    This means that the two sensors HAVE to be at exactly the same temperature to get the best precision of field gradient. Thus, the tube containing the two sensors should be very well insulated from external temperature changes AND the two sensors should be contained inside the SAME air volume. Some people (like Jim Koehler) have tried temperature compensation circuits but with no much success.

    3. External feed-back coils are, in my opinion, just able to OFFSET the range of field to be measured if a constant field is applied. They do not directly improve the sensitivity. They just help to put the field range of values in the middle of the linear part of the frequency measurement curve by applying an appropriate constant field on the sensors. Both sensors of a gradiometer would have to be equipped in order to get the best out of them.
    A real dynamic feed-back system could indeed be designed but this is rather delicate to design and test.

    4. Given the physical principles of flux-gate sensors, we could be happy to SEE field gradients of 5 to 10nT with very well designed HOME-MADE gradiometers. This is quite enough to detect ferro-magnetic artifacts or firs pits or ceramic/bronze/iron cooking ovens but surely too coarse to detect underground archaeological structures like wall foundations, wells or cellars.

    5. The fact that a measurement storage system is designed to record field gradients with a resolution of 1nT (<EPE fluxgate gradiometer design logs the data down to 1nT resolution> ) DOES NOT mean that the data capture sub-system is able to catch that resolution.

    Willy

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    • #17
      Thank you Willy with this great explanation , now I understand why i never have a good result with my 2 FM3 , the alignment was ok but i did not know about the temperature factor and the same air conduct ....
      It is now in the past five o more years ago , I loose many hours to try having a good sensibility ....
      Now we have bought two month ago a Tone Mag 1A fast of Quantro sensing ( http://www.quantrosensing.com/ ) , for the moment(6 hours of use) we are not satisfied 100% with the result for detecting a drummer at 3 meters depth... in our field test...
      Perhaps with the transportation the magnetometer loose the sensibility (alignment of sensors)???
      Before to have a conclusion we must work more hours in the field...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Willy Bayot View Post
        Hi,

        5. The fact that a measurement storage system is designed to record field gradients with a resolution of 1nT (<EPE fluxgate gradiometer design logs the data down to 1nT resolution> ) DOES NOT mean that the data capture sub-system is able to catch that resolution.

        Willy
        Heh Willy, thanks for the helpful response. I agree with you that the 1nT EPE data logger DOES NOT mean that the data is really at that resolution. I think that is the point. When I built that design I was never really happy with how the readings bounced around like a cowgirl riding a mechanical bull .

        And it is also true that fluxgates are highly temp sensitive. The insulation idea is a good one to suggest to anybody thinking about building this design. It is a good project, but could use some refinement from some of the Gurus around here

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        • #19
          Hi,

          The Tone Mag 1A fast of Quantro Sensing is a PROTON MAG, not a fluxgate mag according to ht eshort description of the web site. If is true, then, there could not be any problem of dis-alignment during the shipping.

          Willy

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          • #20
            Depth of Carl Fluxgate Magnetometer?

            Guyz just how deep can this Carl Fluxgate Magnetometer go, in sand, vegetative soil, highly minerlaized soil?

            Any ideas?

            junkie

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            • #21
              Anybody know where to buy FGM-3 in Germany?
              On "Speake&Co" aint no list of distributers?
              Regards!

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              • #22
                Hi Ivconic

                As I know from german guys they also buy the sensors in uk from Mr Speake.I think they sale directly no distribution in europe ,is a small company.In this time they will be close for holidays so send them quickly a mail to understand when...If you want to built a mag there is a digital kit using fgm sensors from germany -
                http://www.sam-europe.de/en/index_en.html
                it cost 130 euro with one sensor +18 the box +17 shipping in Europe.Maybe is good for your use..Try to understand .
                best regards
                Alex

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                • #23
                  Alex wrote:
                  As I know from german guys they also buy the sensors in uk from Mr Speake.I think they sale directly no distribution in europe ,is a small company.In this time they will be close for holidays so send them quickly a mail to understand when...If you want to built a mag there is a digital kit using fgm sensors from germany -
                  http://www.sam-europe.de/en/index_en.html
                  it cost 130 euro with one sensor +18 the box +17 shipping in Europe.Maybe is good for your use..Try to understand .
                  best regards
                  Alex

                  Hi Alex , because i am radio amateur , SAM-project is for radio amateuers , so we can understand the radio-propagation (δηλ. την τροποσφαιρικη διαδοση κυματων και χρησιμοποιείται στα βραχεα κυματα απο 1,8 εως 29ΜΗΖ)
                  What is SAM ?
                  The movements of the earthmagnetic field can give the radio amateur a hint about possible Aurora qso's, the amateur astronamer or hobby photographer can determine his chances to see it.

                  Friendly epitopios

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                  • #24
                    Hi Carl.
                    I m just looking for your magnetometer design.
                    Do you have it for sale has a full kit?
                    How much it will cost me?
                    In advance, many thanks
                    Nelson



                    Originally posted by Carl-NC View Post
                    The biggest problem with any fluxgate design is aligning the sensors. The FGM-3's are already difficult, so the 3H sensors will be extremely difficult.

                    The FGM-3 sensors have a built-in feedback coil that is unused in my design. The next step I had wanted to take is to make use of the feedback coil in balancing the sensors. This could be done in a one-time cal, or on a continuous basis to make a sort-of motion magnetometer. Unfortunately, I have no time to pursue this. But I think it would be a better strategy than trying to use the 3H sensors.

                    - Carl

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                    • #25
                      No, I don't sell it, but Fat Quarters does... see the article for details.

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                      • #26
                        I'm having trouble understanding what everyone means by having problems with the 'alignment' of the sensors. Alignment with respect to what? If you're building a gradiometer, and you want it to produce readings consistent with other gradiometers, then certainly the 2 probes have to be aligned along the same axis.
                        If the type of 'alignment' you mean is alignment with the Earth's cardinal directions, I can understand how multiple measurements with inaccurate alignments could have measurement uncertainties that might be greater than the resolution, sensitivity, and signal/noise figures you measure in your lab. In this case, I can understand how the improved sensitivity of the 3h sensor will not be seen in practice. But even with a gradiometer, you will have a problem measuring accurate field gradients if you take a series measurements with alignment errors. So how is this any better than using a single sensor? Carl, anyone, could you enlighten me? I'm thoroughly confused by this one.

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                        • #27
                          sensors have to be alienated from themselves, I have problems in finding a long pvc pipe, I want to separate as two meters or more.


                          anyone know if it is good the mag. Scintrex MF-1, if is more sencible that MGF-3...?

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                          • #28
                            Hello Agraz.
                            For me the best PVC pipe. The central vacuum cleaner. 50 mm diameter, the best available stiffness.
                            Best regards Chris.

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                            • #29
                              I built one a few years ago and I'll try to explain.

                              There are two sensors and the gradiometer then compares the outputs of the 2 FGMs. Because there is a consistent difference, the comparator then zeros the difference out. When you get to a magnetic material, the FGM, closest to the magnetic field, changes output faster/sooner than the sensor furthest away. This "new" difference is what this gradiometer detects.

                              Granted, I've simplified the explanation a bunch. There is stuff going on inside the SCL-007 that I only understand in principle.

                              I housed mine in 6 feet of 1.5" PVC.

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