Modifying a C.Scope CS4PI

[RiverTowy]

As much as I would like to build a PI detector from scratch, I just do not have the knowledge and skills, yet do have the vision, desire for better things and a sense of experimentation.
Okay, so what am I getting at?
I use a Minelab Sovereign GT with a 15” WOT coil.
A C.Scope CS4PI, has not matched it for depth.
So what I thought would be an interesting experiment, is to modify a C.Scope CS4PI by changing the coil to a larger one and having anything else of the workings of the CS4PI changed accordingly. Correct, I am not technically minded.
I did read that someone put a DD Minelab coil on a CS4PI on this forum.
With waterproof connectors, it would be viable I suppose to not even have to open the control box; just cut the coil cable near the control box and wire up new coil via waterproof connecters.
Can anyone suggest please a coil that would work in conjunction with the CS4PI? Maybe as the standard is 10”, the replacement could be at least 15”. This would offer equivalent ground coverage to my current set up with Sovereign.
Does the new coil have to be matched to the CS4PI by testing with oscilloscope? If so, am stumped; but would be prepared to pay someone to do all this for me.
So it’s a bit of a challenge I suppose. Can anyone help me; perhaps in the name of detecting science?
I am not one for paying any attention to opinions of which detector is better than the next. I do fair and accurate field tests to determine facts.
So far, in all tests done my current set up, beats the CS4PI for depth, so would really like to do tests again with modified CS4PI.
Hope someone can help and I do not mind paying for someone to do the modifications.
PM me if that is what you prefer so information is not in open forum.
Thanks in anticipation.

[Qiaozhi]

You're not comparing apples with apples. A Minelab Sovereign GT is a VLF detector using ML's BBS multi-frequency technology, and the C-Scope CS4PI is a pulse induction detector. Therefore the ML GT coil will not work on the CS4PI.

[RiverTowy]

I do not want to put specifically a Minelab GT coil onto the CS4PI. Sorry if this was not clear. I just said that someone had put a Minelab coil on a CS4PI-but I may be mistaken. Edit-Found it: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...ighlight=CS4PI
I will put on any coil, as long as it is far bigger than standard, something like 15" size to give better coverage and more depth, as long as it can be made to work.
I am not technically minded, so am not able to make my own coil. Maybe something out there that will match?

[muddy fingers]

You may find my thread headed, '7" coil for Blisstool V3' of interest as I think that I was asking a somewhat similar question. I'm a bit like you in that I don't have a great deal of technical knowledge which I find frustrating as there are loads of "mods" I would like to carry out to some of my old detectors. I soon found out that the coil thing was a lot more complicated than I thought and that it is very unlikely that there will be some coil out there that will match a detector for which it was not specifically built. Sometimes I think that there are so many changes that I want to make to my detectors that I would do just a well to acquire a different detector. Some detectors have really great attributes whilst at the same time having annoying drawbacks. I think it is a good thing to accept that it's best to have a few different detectors than to expect one model to fit the bill for every different kind of search condition one encounters. I think Minelab Sovereigns are the best for the sandy beaches but I don't ever take them on my iron infested inland sites because of their slow recovery speed. Similarly, I can think of beaches near me that are strewn with iron debris from the war and using a PI would be impossible. I'm trying to learn all about making coils and fitting meters to help with ID and Ground Balancing. With all the help and advice on here it is a very interesting thing to be doing and something well worth considering getting involved in. You sound a good candidate with your, "vision, desire for better things and sense of experimentation" so why don't you give it a go.

[kt315]

sorry for my very faint english but why sovereign coil? this coil has preamp inserted and it gives big advantage but only for VLF detectors. minelab even does not use shielded cable because feeling not need for intensive RX signal to use the shield. while CS4PI is Eric Foster's impulse tech design, Eric is here at forum, why he silent and does not wish to comment I do not know. for those his last detectors he used big inductivity monocoil. 1mH (milli-Henry). why - nobody is able to tell you why, except Eric. perhaps Eric saw perspective in this design.

sorry gentlemen again.

Eric Foster: My Beachscan uses a coil of 1mH as does the C.Scope CS7 and CS6PI.

[RiverTowy]

Thank you Muddy Fingers, what a great reply. I agree totally with you on what you say about beaches. I have a few beaches in mind for this modified C.Scope if it can be done.

Kt315, It is not my idea or intention to put a Sovereign coil on the CS4PI. Wish I had never made reference to the Minelab Vs C.Scope depth comparison etc etc. and Minelab coil etc. Thanks for comments though.

To keep it nice and simple:
Is it theoretically possible, or even practically possible, to change the standard coil on a C.Scope CS4PI for a larger one (from any maker) in order to have better ground coverage (so lets say about 15”) and to achieve better depth?

So what coil?

Would anything else need to be done to the CS4PI for it to work, i.e. does the detector have to be tuned into the coil (can’t think of any other way to put it), or vice versa?



And I am prepared to pay someone to do it for me.

[RiverTowy]

So it cannot be done then?

[kt315]

1. what inductivity of YOUR coil?
2. what resistance of YOUR coil?
3. pics of YOUR coil under X-ray? (an example attached)

[RiverTowy]

I have no idea what the significance of those questions is and have no idea of the answers. I have no technical knowledge in this area.
I have the standard coil that comes with the detector.

[kt315]

can you give a data of the standart coil that comes with the detector going to neigbour TVs set service, PCs service, mobile phones service, etc, any electronics services, near to you, asking those people to measure L and R?

[kt315]

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?26,...04#msg-2400104

I have purchased another CS4 off EBay and am enjoying comparing what I think of it now as against my previous one several years ago..
I can not get satisfactory operation on my back yard test patch due to excessive EMI but it performs fine at a local river picnic ground.
There is some response to the ground minerals that settled down quite well with careful fiddling of the sensitivity and pulse rate controls.
A nice quiet threshold was achieved with the Sens at mid way and the pulse at 3.0 which also resulted in good sensitivity and depth to Aussie coins in dry river gravel. Response to river granite boulders was minimal and of no bother at all.
Weak EMI can be controlled through careful setting of the pulse rate adjust, but as the control is set bellow the green sector depth is lost on Aussie decimal coin. Depth is lost if a silent threshold is used.
The CS4PI has poor response to gold chains when compared to the Sand Shark, Infinium and SDC 2300. You will likely not find many gold chains with this detector. Response to gold & Sil rings is fine.
I have not taken it to a salt water beach yet but if it is as good as my previous CS4, it will be quite good and is where this detector is best suited..

Some approx air test results for Aussie decimal coins: (Sens at mid way and Pulse rate at 3.0
5 c.....18cm
10 c...24cm
20 c..39cm
50 c..40 + cm
2 dollar...28cm
7g 18ct gold ring...38cm

Response to a 1.0g gold nug was poor at approx 4 inches tops.
The Infinium, sand Shark & 2300 gave much better response to this lil nug. So it is likely that the Delay Timing of the CS4PI is different to that of these other tectas.
Also the measured TX field strength of the CS4PI is similar to that of the Sand Shark and approx 10 times weaker than The Infinium....So battery life of the CS4 should be good compared to the Finny.

Some gold ring test results:
Child size 9ct........0.07g to 1.75g....... = 11cm approx
Adult size 9ct.......1.33g to 3.3g .......... = 15cm
Adult size 18ct to 22ct 1.4g to 4.0g....= 20cm
Adult size 18ct to 22ct 1.75 to 6g..... = 25cm
Adult size 22ct 2.0 g to 8.0g..............= 28+ cm

The SS gives better response to small gold rings than the CS4 plus it is water proof.
The SS does not have any form of EMI cancel capability. The CS4 does to a limited degree.
So as a relatively inexpensive PI; Which of these two is better for salt beach work??......Maybe the SS because it is water proof and has slightly better response to small jewellery items.

Just an opinion.
Not Gospel

PS.
Something that has just made itself apparent with this detector and which I had not tested before is that the CS4PI has very poor response to some white gold and most platinum jewellery when the detector is set to the generally accepted ideal settings with the Sens at the 12 o'clock position and Pulse rate at 3.0.
Setting the detector to Pulse rate 4 will improve the response to this jewellery but the sweep rate must be slowed down dramatically and even then the target response is very broad instead of short and sharp.
So it is very likely that during normal searching at the ideal settings for gold jewellery and coins, this detector will be missing a lot of white gold and platinum items.
It would be interesting to know if any other CS4PI operator have noticed this??

[pustareka]

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?26,...04#msg-2400104

I have purchased another CS4 off EBay and am enjoying comparing what I think of it now as against my previous one several years ago..
I can not get satisfactory operation on my back yard test patch due to excessive EMI but it performs fine at a local river picnic ground.
There is some response to the ground minerals that settled down quite well with careful fiddling of the sensitivity and pulse rate controls.
A nice quiet threshold was achieved with the Sens at mid way and the pulse at 3.0 which also resulted in good sensitivity and depth to Aussie coins in dry river gravel. Response to river granite boulders was minimal and of no bother at all.
Weak EMI can be controlled through careful setting of the pulse rate adjust, but as the control is set bellow the green sector depth is lost on Aussie decimal coin. Depth is lost if a silent threshold is used.
The CS4PI has poor response to gold chains when compared to the Sand Shark, Infinium and SDC 2300. You will likely not find many gold chains with this detector. Response to gold & Sil rings is fine.
I have not taken it to a salt water beach yet but if it is as good as my previous CS4, it will be quite good and is where this detector is best suited..

Some approx air test results for Aussie decimal coins: (Sens at mid way and Pulse rate at 3.0
5 c.....18cm
10 c...24cm
20 c..39cm
50 c..40 + cm
2 dollar...28cm
7g 18ct gold ring...38cm

Response to a 1.0g gold nug was poor at approx 4 inches tops.
The Infinium, sand Shark & 2300 gave much better response to this lil nug. So it is likely that the Delay Timing of the CS4PI is different to that of these other tectas.
Also the measured TX field strength of the CS4PI is similar to that of the Sand Shark and approx 10 times weaker than The Infinium....So battery life of the CS4 should be good compared to the Finny.

Some gold ring test results:
Child size 9ct........0.07g to 1.75g....... = 11cm approx
Adult size 9ct.......1.33g to 3.3g .......... = 15cm
Adult size 18ct to 22ct 1.4g to 4.0g....= 20cm
Adult size 18ct to 22ct 1.75 to 6g..... = 25cm
Adult size 22ct 2.0 g to 8.0g..............= 28+ cm

The SS gives better response to small gold rings than the CS4 plus it is water proof.
The SS does not have any form of EMI cancel capability. The CS4 does to a limited degree.
So as a relatively inexpensive PI; Which of these two is better for salt beach work??......Maybe the SS because it is water proof and has slightly better response to small jewellery items.

Just an opinion.
Not Gospel

PS.
Something that has just made itself apparent with this detector and which I had not tested before is that the CS4PI has very poor response to some white gold and most platinum jewellery when the detector is set to the generally accepted ideal settings with the Sens at the 12 o'clock position and Pulse rate at 3.0.
Setting the detector to Pulse rate 4 will improve the response to this jewellery but the sweep rate must be slowed down dramatically and even then the target response is very broad instead of short and sharp.
So it is very likely that during normal searching at the ideal settings for gold jewellery and coins, this detector will be missing a lot of white gold and platinum items.
It would be interesting to know if any other CS4PI operator have noticed this??

Zdravstvuj KT315,hello.

sxeme CS4 got ? all need sxema old Classic 3. HELP FREND.
thank zou.

[kt315]

somebody here does the schematic but does not wish to share CAD files, standart situation. enjoy

[pustareka]

somebody here does the schematic but does not wish to share CAD files, standart situation. enjoy

Blagodarstvuju KT315.
super gift. thank you.