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**muddy fingers** · 12-02-2014, 02:08 PM

Well nobody has replied to my query which makes me think that everyone must think that I've asked a really stupid question. I know I've asked about a mod for a detector that's in current production and perhaps I shouldn't have done that but I've read plenty of threads where other people are modding something that's still in production. Perhaps I should rephrase my question- Is it possible, in theory, to add a two tone mod to an analogue detector that doesn't already have it. I understand that the values of the necessary components will need to be changed from what was done to the TGSL. I don't want to go to all the trouble of tracing out the circuit of my detector if the idea isn't going to work anyway.

**Carl-NC** · 12-02-2014, 08:57 PM

People mod production detectors all the time. Probably no one knows enough about the Blisstool to answer your question. In general, yes, you can add tone mods to just about any analog detector. But a lot of analog detectors might not really be all-analog. I have no idea on the Blisstool.

**muddy fingers** · 12-03-2014, 06:06 AM

Thanks Carl, your reply to my query is very much appreciated. I think that I will probably be able to add a tone mod to the Blisstool, as I'm sure that it is all-analog. I've got two of these machines now. One to actually use, as I really like it's power and adjustability and the other to experiment on to try and make it easier to use. Don't know whether I will succeed but I'm sure I will learn a lot in the process.

**sinclairuser** · 12-04-2014, 03:21 AM

hi muddy, biggest problem with the bliss is it has way too many controls, at least the one i tried did, adding another tone or even a switchable vco audio together with simplified controls might make it more usable in a turn on and go sense.
i liked the one i tried but it was a real faff to get going and keep running how i wanted it, a few of the pots could be changed for simple switches for instance, it is also too heavy (for me anyway), it could be made lighter.
there is a simple model, the ltc 27 which they dont sell in the uk (discontinued now too), it is nice and simple but i can't find one, it seems that blisstool dont seem to want to sell to all customers, and are only interested in the "all bells and whistles" for silly money fraternity which is a shame.
so i got another whites, in this day and age a company cannot afford to restrict its customer base, building small numbers of lower spec versions at a cheaper price for different uses makes sense.
if they sell say 5000 ltc 64's, then making 400 ltc27's for a limited market, does not take 400 ltc64 sales away lowering profits(which is how blisstool sees it), since the ltc27 buyers would not buy an ltc64 in the first place, they are different customers with different needs, blisstools business model seems to be one all singing and dancing detector, with no room for cheaper simpler versions, a very narrow view.

**muddy fingers** · 12-04-2014, 07:46 AM

Hi sinclairuser, Thank you so much for taking the trouble to write your very interesting post. I think the philosophy of the Bliss is that it can be set up to suit individual users and more importantly individual sites. I like that, as it means that I don't have to settle for what a manufacturer has decided is the best set up for a site. Some of the controls don't need readjusting once you've got them where you want them and a couple, as you suggest, perhaps would have been better leaving as internal pots.

I've read elsewhere on this forum that the Blisstool is based on the 1980 "Magnum," the English name for which is the "Enigma". It ran at 16.8 kHz, I believe. Then there are the "Wave" detectors also from Bulgaria. One model of this brand (Terminator) runs at 8kHz (as does the Bliss) and looks very similar indeed to it externally, but has two tone ID fitted. This is what gave me the idea that I could maybe mod my Bliss with two tone ID as there is a schematic for the Terminator available. It would make identifying iron a lot easier.
Also I want to experiment changing the Ground Balance pot on the Bliss for maybe a multi-turn one in the hope that it will make GB'ing easier. I never experienced any difficulty GB'ing with any of my old Tesoro machines such as the Eldorado or Toltec 100 but they both had 10 turn pots for that, whereas with the Bliss it is very difficult to get right (" a real faff to get going") due I believe, to the fact that the pot doesn't change gradually enough as it is turned.. Any comments on what I've said would be much appreciated.

**Henrikras** · 12-04-2014, 10:03 PM

I made a two tone 1 1/2 year ago

Heya Muddyfingers..
Two tones at the Blisstool isn't easy. You know I made one attempt 1,5 years ago.
I had no scematic so I was made by measureing at the board where there were a different when the signal broke up.
I found that at the 8 pin Audio IC... At that IC the clear signal and the scartzy signal from the Disc. IC meet and with ampl. like LM 341 I could get that little high impedance signal usefull. Then It was only to find the place where the tone change and calibrate my new signal into a DC and lower it down so the Tone changed when the signal was Breaking up.
The problem is... The Bliss got 3 disc. adjustments and to find the excact adjustment was impossible...
The system I made overloaded at target close to the coil! So a nice Roman coin at 1" sounded like a rusty iron...
I gave up, allso because my Blisstool never was stable. One day perfect next day ****.
The Best adwise I can give you is to forget any modification at your Bliss, and enjoy those day its running smooth....
90% af my last 1 year detecting has been with miss Deus and the last 10% with either my Vista Gold or the Velox one...
Why... I learned that is not so much depth, its allso recovery and masking its about, because relic hunting is often full with iron, nails and rusty things, and all the goodies is hidden (masked) not allways deep down.
And should I get a field with allmust no signal, either the 11x13" or my 15" coil at the Deus or the Big 17" coil at the Velox will help me find the hotspot If its there, then I change to a smaller coil and even recovery If its needed.

Henrik.

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**muddy fingers** · 12-05-2014, 11:17 AM

Hi Henrik, Thanks for your reply and advice and nice to hear from you. I do like my Blisstool though and feel that with a few alterations there's a great detector in there somewhere trying to get out! I will enjoy tinkering about with it and hopefully will be able to make a few changes for the better. Thanks for your picture which will prove very helpful, I'm sure. I think Disc positions 1 and 2 could be dispensed with as they are not really needed. The varying stability of the Bliss is very strange I know, it's probably to do with moisture content of the soil or ambient temperatures affecting the coil or certain components. I agree with you that successful detecting is not just about getting good depth but I do find that the Blisstool is pretty good at finding tiny hammered coins amongst the iron once you get used to it so that's why I have stuck with it. I know that I consistently find more coins etc. of all sizes and depths than the people I detect with, the majority of whom use the expensive machines you speak of.

**Henrikras** · 12-05-2014, 03:42 PM

What about trying a Equalizer at the Headphones !!! Maybee you could make the tones a little more friendly to your ears..
One like this could make a different, or built your own. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Koss-Portabl...uctDescription
I'm not sure this KOSS still can be found.. !

**muddy fingers** · 12-05-2014, 08:09 PM

What I wanted to do though was use a low tone to identify iron and a high tone to identify good metals. I may try to put a meter in the circuit instead- needle left for iron and right for good metals. I've been studying a circuit diagram of the 1980s Magnum and also the Bulgarian mods that were made to it a couple of years ago. If I find that the circuit is similar to the Blisstool in any way once I've traced out that circuit, then it should help me to find out where to connect a meter like the original Magnum had or help me to work out how to fit a two tone ID mod as I originally intended- whichever is the easier. I'm hoping that the Magnum circuit will identify all the ICs as their identification numbers have been sanded out inside the Blisstools.

**Henrikras** · 12-06-2014, 08:34 AM

If its any help. The Blisstool got a power supply runing 5.50 volt and 11.00 volt, made at the 8 pin IC in the middle of the Board close to all the pot. If that allso can be found at your scematic, it could be (allmust) the same.
If you want a meter at your Blisstool, it could be made... But its a signal and not DC when tone breaks up (iron). Your therefore need a LM 741 or similar IC to amplifirer up the signal and then you can work with a meter.. Remember I made a VU meter a my Blisstool and that was made like this.
good luck with your attempt.
Henrik

**muddy fingers** · 12-06-2014, 02:03 PM

Thanks again Henrik, I do remember that you made a meter for the Blisstool but the video of it no longer exists. Also, I couldn't find any details about what you did and you said the VDU was difficult to see in the sunshine anyway. I intend using one of the big old meters out of an old C-Scope for my project. You were disappointed that your VDU didn't respond to deep "iffy" targets but this happens with nearly all detectors doesn't it- the discrimination circuit being weaker than the all metal circuit. On the Magnum, Andy Flind's article in the Electronics Magazine of 1981 which I've been reading on the web, gives further details about how to make the meter more sensitive by up to three times, so that should also help me.

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TGSL 2 tones ID mod on other analogue detectors.

TGSL 2 tones ID mod on other analogue detectors.

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