Fisher F70

[ivconic]

I am having Fisher F70 on repair. Usual story; there is no legal&regular custom support in Serbia for Fisher products.
Sending faulty device abroad to legal service is usually out of question, due several serous reasons.
Overall costs in such case will reach 1/2 of price. Completely pointless. People from abroad do not understand that problems.
So... what's wrong with this F70?
It will not turn ON. After dozen attempts; suddenly it turns ON and behaves correct. Than all of the sudden, randomly; it turns Off.
Next dozen attempts to turn it ON fails. After several hours it still will not turn ON. Than again, randomly; it suddenly turns On.
Sometimes when it turns On it is not behaving correctly, some elements on LCD display are missing, it displays random patterns etc.
Sometimes it is producing some erratic tones for short period and than turns Off.
All is happening pretty random. Most of the time it is dead, not turning On, not displaying nothing and not producing any tone.
Ok.
So first i checked trivial things; batteries are alright, contacts are alright, switch is alright.
Cables from battery&speaker case to main case and pcb are alright.
8-pin 5v regulator on pcb is giving proper 5 volts.
All Vcc points are properly supplied with 5 volts (opamps etc).
Some test points closer to MCU are having 3V3 voltage.
Some points are having some other smaller voltages.
I don't have schematic nor i have any additional info.
I resoldered (over existing junctions) again, suspecting some "cold junction". I checked all the connections.
Nothing!
No progress!
Either i missed something, either MCU is faulty. No third case.
Would be indeed great help to have values at test points on pcb.
I even thought to contact Fisher's customer support... but than i did that several times in the past and i got NO response not help from them.
Most probably they will suggest me "to contact nearest ....." and "send it to our..." blah blah blah blah!
Same old story.
That's why i will not contact them.
BTW... that's why their products are BUSTING and not selling much here in these areas.
Only brands with good local customer support are wide sold and popular here lately.
That's why XP RULEZ! Only XP and nobody else.
I can anticipate that in next 5-6 years we will use here only XP products and not others else.
Here are few shots;

[CDI]

I am having Fisher F70 on repair. Usual story; there is no legal&regular custom support in Serbia for Fisher products.
Sending faulty device abroad to legal service is usually out of question, due several serous reasons.
Overall costs in such case will reach 1/2 of price. Completely pointless. People from abroad do not understand that problems.
So... what's wrong with this F70?
It will not turn ON. After dozen attempts; suddenly it turns ON and behaves correct. Than all of the sudden, randomly; it turns Off.
Next dozen attempts to turn it ON fails. After several hours it still will not turn ON. Than again, randomly; it suddenly turns On.
Sometimes when it turns On it is not behaving correctly, some elements on LCD display are missing, it displays random patterns etc.
Sometimes it is producing some erratic tones for short period and than turns Off.
All is happening pretty random. Most of the time it is dead, not turning On, not displaying nothing and not producing any tone.
Ok.
So first i checked trivial things; batteries are alright, contacts are alright, switch is alright.
Cables from battery&speaker case to main case and pcb are alright.
8-pin 5v regulator on pcb is giving proper 5 volts.
All Vcc points are properly supplied with 5 volts (opamps etc).
Some test points closer to MCU are having 3V3 voltage.
Some points are having some other smaller voltages.
I don't have schematic nor i have any additional info.
I resoldered (over existing junctions) again, suspecting some "cold junction". I checked all the connections.
Nothing!
No progress!
Either i missed something, either MCU is faulty. No third case.
Would be indeed great help to have values at test points on pcb.
I even thought to contact Fisher's customer support... but than i did that several times in the past and i got NO response not help from them.
Most probably they will suggest me "to contact nearest ....." and "send it to our..." blah blah blah blah!
Same old story.
That's why i will not contact them.
BTW... that's why their products are BUSTING and not selling much here in these areas.
Only brands with good local customer support are wide sold and popular here lately.
That's why XP RULEZ! Only XP and nobody else.
I can anticipate that in next 5-6 years we will use here only XP products and not others else.
Here are few shots;

[ATTACH]34612[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]34613[/ATTACH]

Almost same problem like with my Cortes, cpu is dead. We talked about him via mail, Ivica.
Later i contacted Tesoro guys, they suggest me to send Cortes to Slovakia.
You are right about XP, my next will be for sure Deus Lite.
Regards

[Koala]

Crystals can fail if they have had a slight bump.

[ivconic]

Almost same problem like with my Cortes, cpu is dead. We talked about him via mail, Ivica.
Later i contacted Tesoro guys, they suggest me to send Cortes to Slovakia.
You are right about XP, my next will be for sure Deus Lite.
Regards

Not because i am having Deus and am great XP fan; it is a fact that those guys are paying extreme attention and respect to customers.
So far best customer support that i have seen.
In the past i tried to contact and communicate with some of the "big" players (it turns those are far from been big, actually those were having lousy and very limited and simpleminded attitude towards customers).
I always insisted on huge potentials which are present in "small" markets like Serbia is ( all other Balkan countries too).
Usually i got no response or response with lot of lousy excuses, why they are not "focused" on such small markets, "third party" markets, countries from "eastern world" etc...etc...
Bunch of yoyos; all of them.
Only simpleminded and limited person can say something like that, they usually do.
Ignorance and illiteracy is their main illness.
It takes only few hours of research to learn that real md market is where the rich History is.
And these regions and areas are certainly most richest with deep History. Meaning further that there is a lot of real "job" for metal detectors here.
Meaning further that these are most potential md markets in the world.
Serbia is having barely 8 millions people. And huge rate of metal detector owners. Most of those posses 2,3 and more devices at the same time.
My approximate assumption is; 20-50 000 metal detectors least. Maybe much more, certainly not less. Only in Serbia.
What is the situation in surrounding countries? I guess 200 000 to million devices, most probably.
Ain't that enough good reason to take this region as potent market?
Ain't that enough good reason to establish here good customer support and local services?
Sane and literate man will answer; YES of course! It should be done 20 years ago.
Illiterate and ignorant man will find lot of idiotic excuses.
I got all the idiotic, ignorant and illiterate excuses so far from 95% of md manufacturers that i contacted so far.
All except Troy Galloway and lately Alain Loube. Those two showed exceptional politeness, literacy and wisdom.
Pity; Troy is out of game for quite some time.

[ivconic]

Crystals can fail if they have had a slight bump.

Good point!
I only wonder... assume that quartz is broken for some reason; can it prevent md to turn ON?
I will explore this further!
Thanks for idea!

[ivconic]

Almost same problem like with my Cortes, cpu is dead. We talked about him via mail, Ivica.
Later i contacted Tesoro guys, they suggest me to send Cortes to Slovakia.
You are right about XP, my next will be for sure Deus Lite.
Regards

Further...
i don't see what is the problem to make sort of "agreement on confidentiality of data flow and copyright protection" (or whatever the proper term is) with local experts and establish good local services and customer support ...
not only in EVERY possible country on the world, but also in EVERY possible region and area.
Costs? No way! Those local services and customer supports will need just small "starting" help and support from company, later it will be self-sustainable.
What is indeed needed?
Original documentation, service&repair manuals and original spare parts... WITHOUT BLACKMAILING those experts and local services to pay in advance everything or to order larger quantities of this and that.
Nor to condition them to wait customer to apply for service and than to order one single part from company. Most people will not wait.
These are quite different times than in the past, now 99% of products are MCU oriented. Best possible protection is it's code.
So nobody is asking them for source code. Nor complete schematic and details.
Only necessarily information and documentation needed for proper repair& service on the spot, without delays and waiting.
Huge majority of users don't want to wait and don't want to pay extra money.
Instead most of those will rather give up from broken device and buy new one, in most cases other brand.
As active amateur servicer for over the 15 years i have certain experience with what people thinking about this subject.
That's why am i writing this as it is, plain and rough truth and facts.
World indeed turned to "global village" and quite new rules are on.
It's time to change the way of thinking, get out from "bunkers" and take modern attitude and approach towards customers and modern markets.
Those who are still playing by the 20-years-old rules ... will vanish.
I don't feel sorry for them.

[Mechanic]

Check the crystal, apply heat see it it fires up...

[ivconic]

It's ATS060SM CTS51005...
6Mhz quartz so it is.
I will look for another one and see.

[ivconic]

CDI, Mechanik and Koala thanks!
Yes quartz is bad!
Sheeesh! It was last on my mind to suspect it!
Now it turns ON on every attempt.
But now i have other problems to solve...
It is working erratically and detection is poor.
Ok... one step at the time!
Thanks again for tips!

[Skippy]

They are not weather-resistant. Check for any water-related damage - corrosion, stains, those sort of things.
A mostly complete circuit diagram is out there, on a Russian site, I have a copy if you PM me. It's named F70_sch.gif, maybe you can find it.

[ivconic]

They are not weather-resistant. Check for any water-related damage - corrosion, stains, those sort of things.
A mostly complete circuit diagram is out there, on a Russian site, I have a copy if you PM me. It's named F70_sch.gif, maybe you can find it.

I am having it for quite some time but completely forgot it!
This afternoon i was looking up for some other things on my disk and randomly stumbled on it!!
Detector is powering On. But also is having very bad behavior due some for me still unknown reason?
I will try again in few days, right now i am completely exhausted.
Looks like something is burned hard on pcb. Will see.