Coinmaster Classic II-Surfmaster Classic II-Coil difference?

[megadivers]

I was told that a White's Classic II and a Surfmaster II are essentially identical. This is not the case. The Classic uses an older 6B coil and the Surfmaster II uses standard G or H coils(Blue Max coils). What is the difference and could I mod the classic to accept the Blue Max series coils?I really like the circuit employed by the classic and surfmaster due to the simplicity and the ability to turn it up by using Mr Bills mods. Attached are high res pictures for your review. Any help with the adaptation of the classic to Blue Max coils would be greatly appreciated. I do not have the schematics unfortunately.

[megadivers]

Coinmaster Back Picture

[megadivers]

Surfmaster II Component Side

[megadivers]

Surfmaster II Back

[kt315]

hi megadivers, thanks for good Q photos. what you need? I have Classic schematic and XLT coil inside photos. you may attach any White's 6,59 Hz coil I think. these all are done in some color 'standart' of wires....

regards

[amtech2005]

Coinmaster Classic II- Surfmaster Classic II-Coil difference?

Hello Megadivers , As you know white makes , or has made a bunch of search-coils. I am now searching this forum for the whites pin-configuration on the connector plug for your VLF-Surfmaster . You do have some option's like KT315 already mentioned , I am sure he will post some very good answers , but for now did you see this web-site already ?? And when I get back home this week-end , I will research again also on this vlf coil substitute issue ...Thanks......Eugene.........http://www.whiteselectronics.net/cal...ies_loops_.htm

[megadivers]

Classic / Surfmaster Coil

Thanks for the replys. Well, the classic coil is of the standard 6.59 freq although the 6B design does not ground balance correctly or achieve any depth when you replace the 6B with a G or H style coil. (Blue Max) Apparently the Blue Max coils have a different capacitance than the earlier non-ID(6B) style coils. The surfmaster PCB as pictured does have a blue max coil and works perfectly. The differences that I see is at R59 and the capacitor just above it. I am trying to attach a Blue Max coil on the coinmaster. I have the wiring colors but it does not work correctly when attached. I am attempting to mate the later style coils to the coinmaster circuit. Thanks again for any help. I think that if you compare the schematic between the two, the difference will be apparent.

[megadivers]

The coils:

The loop that is attached to the Classic PCB:

8" Series 2 Type B loop

Fits Classic 1 and Classic 2 onlys
P/N801-3114-1


The loop that is attached to the Surfmaster:

Blue Max 9.5" Loop

Fits XLT, 6000 XL, XL Pro, QXT Pro, IDX, ID, CL III, 5900, Sierra Madre, PRL-1. Graphite self-shielding housing. Injection foam filling. High performance patented coil configuration.
Open center design. 6.5kHz
P/N 801-3187-4

Note the difference in model disignation although the frequency is the same.

[Mrand]

Change jumper combination only, change type of Classic. Code is in table.
Mrand

[megadivers]

Jumper matrix

Thank you Mrand. Now I just need to decipher the jumper matrix? Maybe the far left has been cut off in the scan?

[megadivers]

Sorry!

I think i see now scan in two pieces. LOL. I will experiment tonight.

Thanks again!

[megadivers]

Components

After looking closely, there are surely differences besides jumpers. There are added components on the Surfmaster II PCB. Most notably, a resistor at r59, LED, and capacitor on the left side. The only thing I am trying to do is add the Blue Max style coils to this circuit. A schematic on the two would surely help as well to show what the jumpers actually change/disable/etc.

[megadivers]

Jumpers

Thanks so much Mrand for the jumper listing. I have pieced it together so that it can be easily printed.

[kt315]

The only thing I am trying to do is add the Blue Max style coils to this circuit.

you may do it using via colors of coil wires what you see on the schematic. I do not see the problem.

A schematic on the two would surely help as well to show what the jumpers actually change/disable/etc.

my english is not so best to give you detailed answer and I see the people do not wishes to give you suggestions. I try to tell you my vision on the jumpers. these are NOT what you think about them. these are only for some 'constructive, for future updates'. Whites uses such PCB trying do some updates due on serial PCB using it as testing PCB. they connect a some electronic to the PCB. I might be name this way 'conveyer' one or maybe 'very quick' way for to test new schematic decisions. if they have see the decision got OK, then they will change PCB layout (and the jumpers will be deleted).
if my comment is not clear for you Carl will do one's bit.

yours

[megadivers]

Looks like R59 will allow the later 6.59khz coils

Thank you KT315. You are correct, the jumpers are for things like moving the potentiometers around on the board,etc. Not much use really. The coil is wired the same on both the 6b coil and the G or H coils for whites although different values exist within the coil itself(caps) that prevent the correct ground balance and ultimately the depth is affected by this quite a bit. I believe changing the value of R59 should take care of the interior differences of the coil. In the classic II circuit it is a jumper and in the Surfmaster circuit it is a 1/4 resistor with a rating of 270 ohms.