Vallon VMH3CS Mine Detector

[Riss]

I will make a solution of sea salt in water, with concentration the same as that of the Atlantic Ocean and I will test Vallon , using river sand and salt solution

This test is useless unless you have a huge volume of salt solution. What container volume will you be using? Even a small swimming pool with enough salt to bring it to the concentration in seawater gives little noticeable signal. Been there, done that.

Eric.

I had the intention to make a shallow trench-about 10 cm deep , about 1 square meter, on the bottom to put a polyethylene foil- to keep the saline solution , to fill it with sand and pour 10 liters of salt solution . 6 years ago we just polished 10 liters of water with 1 kg of salt for cooking , dissolved in it. The saline spot was about 1.5 m in diameter. The effect was horrifying- only Spectra V3 , on salt elimination mode -all three frequencies are used , behaved perfectly ! There was no BBS ( FBS ) technologies of Minelab, Fisher CZ5 (6) , as well DFX ?Whites. Actually I've always been horrified from the operation of highly conductive soils-they make it terrifying false signals ! 20 years I pay my sins on such terrains . There only hybrid technology gives good results-nothing else ! About a small swimming pool- there are several articles on this topic ( vortex currents in conductive environment , time constants , diameter of current loops at a certain diameter of TX coil ,decay time of vortex currents -richly illustrated with mathematical formulas ). At least 2 places in the patents on Bruce H. Candy these are being considered these problems . I wrote to you almost two months ago-private message . I asked for some software for Vallon , I specified how I tested it , and what is my purpose ( intention ) . You did not answer me. I a week ago I did a test one modified by me PCB and 56 cm monocoil , wrapped with home-made Litz wire. I am happy with the results . I would make about 60 cm monocoil for Vallon , if someone help me with reasonably-made software . Spring came - I will work with this , which I tested . There is no time-the grass will soon begin to grow !!!

[Ferric Toes]

Riss, the only software that is available for the VMH3CS is from Vallon. No other alternative software is available as far as I know. I did receive your message but some of it was screwed up, such that it was not fully understandable; maybe my computer did not recognise certain characters. Technologies other than pulse induction, can react strongly to conductive soils, particularly salty ones. PI detectors such as the Aquapulse are very effective in the sea itself, even in the Mediterranean which has a higher salinity than the Atlantic. An Aquapulse recently found 43 gold coins on the site of a 1715 Spanish plate fleet wreck off the coast of Florida.

You in the United Kingdom you have extremely light soils- with very low reactive components. This makes you mislead about the capabilities of Vallon in Mineral mode. Very wrong! I do not make misleading statements about the VMH3CS. What you state about soils in the UK, I regard as misleading. The complex geology of the UK has all types of soil represented from weak to strong, magnetically speaking. We have volcanic basalts and lava flows from past ages and soils developed on these have a strong magnetic signature where a detector cannot be used without GB. Even soils that have origins on sedimentary rocks can develop strong magnetic viscosity over time, due to human occupation, burning, and microbial action etc.. However, I have not as yet measured any soil that has higher viscous magnetism than that from parts of Australian goldfield areas. There is an Australian forum where the VMH3CS has quite a long thread dealing with beach and nugget hunting. One post states -

"In the Mineral mode the detector was able to quieten some significant slabs of maghemite and ironstone to a level where I could hear easily, some 0.63g to 1.2g nuggs through 1.75 inches of solid maghemite". A later post by the same person - The Vallon ground balances my slabs of ironstone better than my Infinium and the SDC2300 and will still ping some gold nuggs down to 0.15g and lower through these slabs. I said it once before that if you have one of these tectas and you have mastered the ground balance procedure then give it a run in the gold fields. - there is plenty of discussion going on re Vallon Mine detectors around the worlds coin, relic and gold detecting forums and it is all good".

I really don't know what is giving problems in Bulgaria. However, if you are testing objects under iron ore, or in ground containing iron ore, then this is not realistic and will give serious loss in range due to distortion of the pulsed field from the coil. Iron ore is basically Magnetite or Hematite which is different to ironstone (maghemite) as found in Australia. Maghemite is an oxidised version of magnetite which gives the ground signal in ironstone and various types of soil.

Eric.

[Riss]

I live in a mountain valley , northern slope. Granaries predominate , but they start at about 500 meters above sea level . There are also layered rocks that are weak-magnetic . The most treacherous (insidious ) stones , which I have tested during my life I found in the pad on narrow road over my city. I recognized them with a magnet . It was difficult - they were mostly under the asphalt and on the periphery of this old road . I had to break with a pickax ( mattock ) part of the asphalt in the name of science , to get mine hands on them These stones are anisotropic -have areas with less magnetic permeability , which is easy to understand with the top of the magnet. Unlike my favorite piece iron ore, these devilish stones move the falling slope of PI detectors sometimes with more than 7 microseconds ! But completely decay about 27 microseconds after breaking the current in the coil . With these stones in my bottomless pocket , I easily tied up acquaintances with nothing suspicious members of the teams on Minelab , who had imprudence to come to BulgariaThese stones have an unpredictable reactive component and are recognized as non-magnetic targets in a certain orientation towards search head.Defeat all technologies in a detectors

[Riss]

I too have a 1 Lev coin that will arrive this week from ebay, Since I can detect a 0.24gm flat gold nugget through a 40mm thick piece of Australian iron mineralised rock in 'mineral mode', I am quite confident that the Vallon will detect the 1 Lev at considerable range in this mode with the standard coil. The Vallon has been tested for detection range in highly mineralised soils in Cambodia and Laos by professional bodies working with humanitarian demining organisations. It came out as one of the best detectors in these conditions. Australian soil and rock is much worse than anything yet tested; maybe Bulgarian ground is worse still. If I can get a 10gm sample, I can test for magnetic susceptibility and viscosity. True scientific methods that are repeatable.

Eric.

Eric , ,,When the facts speak , and the gods are silent '' . Let us not enter into unnecessary verbal disputes , similar to the disputes of the priests from the Middle Ages , about their favorite question ,, how much the devil they can to accommodate on the top of a needle ? . Logically look , not only me - all expect after the coin of 1 lev is in your hand , then make a short video - switch Vallon to normal mode , you measure what maximum distance is registered this coin in the air . Then turn on the Mineral mode , eliminate piece of ceramics or brick , after passing the procedure in point 3.3.1 Automatic Fine Adaptation to Mineralized Soil (http://www.vallon.de/download/Vertri..._soft_1_14.pdf ) . Adjust Vallon to ceramics . Then re-measure the response distance . Again air test . This is also valid in the soil - almost the same ! It is so easy! And very convincing ! Everyone will applaud you , and he will be glad , that I will stop writing in your topic , and this way to spot ( stain ) the cloudless atmosphere and ruin the optimistic spirit !You will be very persuasive , if with a file make some dust from the brick , and demonstrate , that this dust sticks to a neodymium magnet . Well-baked Roman brick for example . You have . Bulgaria and U.K. are former Roman provinces . Not to act as Bulgarian politicians which some of the journalists' questions give the following answer : ,, thank you for the question , ask the next question ? .So far the only thing I have achieved , is to greatly improve the interest to this topic . #1681 , 01-24-2019, 11:04 AM -for the first time I wrote in this topic. I recorded the number of visits at that moment - it was 73,131 . I'm even not sure about that- this may be the number at my third or fourth post .

[green]

Wondering if 1 lev coin has fallen in PI hole?

[Ferric Toes]

Wondering if 1 lev coin has fallen in PI hole?

Hi Green, That is a possibility and I have the coin now and will test it tomorrow. I will also plot its decay curve and see if it comes close to that of iron mineralised rock. Luckily, I haven't packed my tester away yet, prior to moving.

Eric.

[Riss]

[TH'r]

Eric , ,,When the facts speak , and the gods are silent '' . Let us not enter into unnecessary verbal disputes , similar to the disputes of the priests from the Middle Ages , about their favorite question ,, how much the devil they can to accommodate on the top of a needle ? . Logically look , not only me - all expect after the coin of 1 lev is in your hand , then make a short video - switch Vallon to normal mode , you measure what maximum distance is registered this coin in the air . Then turn on the Mineral mode , eliminate piece of ceramics or brick , after passing the procedure in point 3.3.1 Automatic Fine Adaptation to Mineralized Soil (http://www.vallon.de/download/Vertri..._soft_1_14.pdf ) . Adjust Vallon to ceramics . Then re-measure the response distance . Again air test . This is also valid in the soil - almost the same ! It is so easy! And very convincing ! Everyone will applaud you , and he will be glad , that I will stop writing in your topic , and this way to spot ( stain ) the cloudless atmosphere and ruin the optimistic spirit !You will be very persuasive , if with a file make some dust from the brick , and demonstrate , that this dust sticks to a neodymium magnet . Well-baked Roman brick for example . You have . Bulgaria and U.K. are former Roman provinces . Not to act as Bulgarian politicians which some of the journalists' questions give the following answer : ,, thank you for the question , ask the next question ? .So far the only thing I have achieved , is to greatly improve the interest to this topic . #1681 , 01-24-2019, 11:04 AM -for the first time I wrote in this topic. I recorded the number of visits at that moment - it was 73,131 . I'm even not sure about that- this may be the number at my third or fourth post .

Riss; This is a quote from the 1.19 operation manual Section 6.3.3 "Program mineral adapts the detector to the magnetic properties of the soil. Targets with similar properties may be overlooked."

[MTammet]

Gladly I am not after 1 lev coins.

[Ferric Toes]

Yes, Green was correct. The loss in range is due to the GB 'hole' in the response. In the attached plot, B (blue trace) is Australian ironstone. This will have a similar decay to earthenware pottery, volcanic basalt, iron mineralised soil, etc,etc. The only major difference will be the amplitude. For convenience all amplitudes were set at 20uS to the same starting level. One can see that the Lev (curve C) is close to the ironstone decay and at one point crosses it. If GB sampling was taken here then the 1 Lev coin would not be detected at any range. I have no information about the method of GB used in the VMH3CS or the timing of GB and signal samples, so cannot comment further.

For comparison, curve A is a US Nickel and D is a UK 1 pound, which has a similar construction to the Lev except the diameter is slightly smaller but thickness is a bit greater. For objects such as A and D whose amplitudes, either positive or negative which are well clear of the ironstone trace will not suffer significant loss in range. Previously I had not noticed a 'hole' in the Vallon's performance and that must be the reason for the severe loss in range on the 1 Lev coin. Perhaps Riss will test other more, or less, conductive coins to compare performance. Note that the ironstone decay starts fast, but slows down with time so that even at 200uS the signal level still has not reached the zero. I will measure the actual detection ranges in 'normal' and 'mineral' for the 1 Lev in due course. Thanks to Riss for bringing this matter up, and Green for his post, as otherwise I might never have come across the hole in the response. .

Eric.

PS the 1 pound coin should be trace D, not a second B.

[kingswood]

Awesome work Eric and well done Green for the thought process

[waltr]

Awesome work Eric and well done Green for the thought process

Yes, good work and I enjoy reading all posts by you guys.

The curves Eric posted are expected. The three metal target look to be Exp^(-t/Tau) whereas the Ironstone looks to be -1/t.
If plotted on a Log/Lin and log/log graph this should be obvious.

Very interesting that even this Vallon detector has a GB hole.

[Rocketdemon]

Just to test my understanding.

If I only operate in "Normal" mode I will never suffer from the effects of GB Holes?

Pete

[Ferric Toes]

Just to test my understanding.

If I only operate in "Normal" mode I will never suffer from the effects of GB Holes?

Pete

No holes in 'normal' mode; only the ones you dig.

Eric.

[Riss]

Riss; This is a quote from the 1.19 operation manual Section 6.3.3 "Program mineral adapts the detector to the magnetic properties of the soil. Targets with similar properties may be overlooked."

Let us be correct - to quote correctly , without interpretations . This mine post contains information between the rows ? here's a precise quote , - 3.3.3 Important Notes , from the instruction of Vallon : http://www.vallon.de/download/Vertri..._soft_1_14.pdf
,,NOTE
The program ,,mineral'' adapts the detector to the metallic properties of the
soil. Mines containing metal components with the same electromagnetic
features may be overlooked.
Use program ,,mineral'' only if absolutely necessary. ''
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