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Doubt about the Polish PI

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  • Doubt about the Polish PI

    Hello!
    I worked with analog electronics for many years. Today I am retired and electronics is my hobby.
    Recently I became interested in metal detectors.
    I studied the following detectors: FB, IB, PI and pinpointer.
    Among the PIs I came across the Polish PI and then my question started.
    I downloaded numerous circuits from the Polish PI and in all of them I found the same stage formed by the T3 transistor.
    This transistor should form a current source controlled by the output voltage of the LM741 (IC3).
    This current source would modulate the frequency of the CI LM555 (IC6) configured as an astable oscillator.
    The detail is that I analyzed the circuit formed by transistor T3, but I did not understand how that configuration can generate a current source.
    The output voltage of the LM741 is entering through the transistor collector, which does not correspond to all three transistor operating configurations in the linear region.
    There is no way for a signal to enter through the collector and exit through the emitter.
    The base-collector junction is reversed-polarized, which is normal, but the base-emitter junction is also reversed-polarized, which is not normal.
    I simulated the circuit in question. I used the Simetrix app.
    I replaced the LM741 output with a square wave voltage source from -4V to + 4V at 100Hz, but I did not detect the load current for the LM555. So the output of the LM555 did not oscillate.
    Then I changed the frequency to 1Hz and it didn't work either.
    But the fact is that there are thousands of Polish IP circuits in operation around the world, so I would like someone to clarify this question for me.
    Thank you!

  • #2
    Which schematic are you referring to?
    Is it the one in the attachment below?
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Typical mistake from a hobbyist magazine, I think. The transistor is drawn with it's terminals mixed up, the emitter will connect to the +12V rail via the 5k6, the base connects to the 741 output, the collector joins the charge/discharge circuitry of the NE555.
      Easily corrected with leaded components, thankfully.

      Makes me wonder if it was designed for an alternative pinout part, like the BC212L, with the bce leg sequence.

      Comment


      • #4
        Typical mistake from a hobbyist magazine, I think.
        ---
        maybe it is used as two diodes, with general cathode. not like a transistor using ordinarely you just see at the sch. maybe...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Skippy View Post
          Typical mistake from a hobbyist magazine, I think. The transistor is drawn with it's terminals mixed up, the emitter will connect to the +12V rail via the 5k6, the base connects to the 741 output, the collector joins the charge/discharge circuitry of the NE555.
          Easily corrected with leaded components, thankfully.

          Makes me wonder if it was designed for an alternative pinout part, like the BC212L, with the bce leg sequence.

          Interesting observation there skippy, I think dbanner or waltr made it, would be interesting to hear how they got theirs working.

          Comment


          • #6
            I never built this one. Maybe Don did.

            Comment


            • #7
              Excuse me. I'm not getting feedback from the Forum.

              MOR_AL

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Qiaozhi View Post
                Which schematic are you referring to?
                Is it the one in the attachment below?
                Excuse me. I'm not getting feedback from the Forum.
                Yes it is!
                MOR_AL

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Skippy View Post
                  Typical mistake from a hobbyist magazine, I think. The transistor is drawn with it's terminals mixed up, the emitter will connect to the +12V rail via the 5k6, the base connects to the 741 output, the collector joins the charge/discharge circuitry of the NE555.
                  Easily corrected with leaded components, thankfully.

                  Makes me wonder if it was designed for an alternative pinout part, like the BC212L, with the bce leg sequence.
                  I simulated this stage and it obviously didn't work.
                  There are many links to this same schematic diagram.
                  But how is it possible that many have set up with this circuit and it works?
                  MOR_AL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kt315 View Post
                    Typical mistake from a hobbyist magazine, I think.
                    ---
                    maybe it is used as two diodes, with general cathode. not like a transistor using ordinarely you just see at the sch. maybe...
                    To function as two diodes at some point, the collector should be directly polarized, as well as the emitter, but this does not occur.
                    MOR_AL

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MOR_AL View Post
                      To function as two diodes at some point, the collector should be directly polarized, as well as the emitter, but this does not occur.
                      MOR_AL
                      take this part from Sandbanks_ P J Wales, thats polish one in base. seek the sch/PDF from PROJECT subsection of this site.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 6666 View Post
                        Interesting observation there skippy, I think dbanner or waltr made it, would be interesting to hear how they got theirs working.
                        Bernte did this project, here is one of his videos:
                        https://youtu.be/LLgtMo0JYK4

                        I also did the project as well with the same pcb that I got from Bernte. I did a few videos on my Youtube channel of my build.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by surfdetector View Post
                          Bernte did this project, here is one of his videos:
                          https://youtu.be/LLgtMo0JYK4

                          I also did the project as well with the same pcb that I got from Bernte. I did a few videos on my Youtube channel of my build.

                          Thanks so which schematic did you guys follow ?.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 6666 View Post
                            Thanks so which schematic did you guys follow ?.
                            This is the PCB that we did. There is a pretty long thread on the German forum that Bernte and his group did of their build. I cannot find the link right now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am in the German forum and have also set up this circuit.It worked immediately and is simple

                              DetektorforumLucaslab ? Google Drive

                              Comment

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