Compass Scanner, JE two board series (top Target ID/Notch board)

[kt315]

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Designer Payne obviously knew this. He is great designer of metal detectors.
4016 is cheaper, so cost cutting is always a factor when mass producing.

[Melbeta]

Dbanner
George Payne was not the designer of either the Challenger nor the Gold Scanner Pro series, it was the Chief Engineer John Earle who was the designer of both models. George Payne came to Compass after the demise of Tek Ltd, and designed just two models, The Coin Scanner Pro and a lesser model version.

John Earle had left Compass at that time because Compass was having difficulties and he knew that his prototypes, which he had created at Compass, would not be manufactured. So John Earle went to work at Whites Electronics as Chief Engineer, and there his expertise would flourish.

After designing the two models at Compass, George Payne went to work at Discovery Electronics, and there his expertise also would flourish as he designed several modular metal detectors.

And yes, I figured that the 4016 was a lesser chip, and thus cheaper, but I wanted to know why they switch chips, and DavidB answered that question.

For those who have questions in their minds, the Scanner series of detectors, were not only scaled down versions of the Challenger X-100 model, they were considerably lesser versions. If someone were to reverse engineer both models, and create a new Scanner version, with the options of both models, man oh man would that be an awesome metal detector. But alas, it would take lots of money to tool into production, and only someone like the company in Texas, or Whites, or Garrett, could handle it.

For you, who are not familiar with the Challenger X-100, I post this short example of just what the X-100 had under its engine hood! That new version Scanner would be a hopped up X-100 on steroids, with the light weight grace and agility, and ability, of a X-100 Scanner version. It would gobble up competitors due to its ability to permit the user full use of the power and lightness of weight. The X-100 of Compass went far deeper then any other Compass metal detector, bar none, including the later X-200 version.
Melbeta

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Thanks for correction, I did notice lots of similarities between schematics of metal detectors from different companies of that time. Must have been only a few top designers who were in high demand? I found Challenger x100 video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwGmC5671lE
I seem to remember seeing a list of models by year for Compass metal detectors, probably compiled by you? I cant seem to find it now.

[Melbeta]

Thanks for correction, I did notice lots of similarities between schematics of metal detectors from different companies of that time. Must have been only a few top designers who were in high demand? I found Challenger x100 video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwGmC5671lE
I seem to remember seeing a list of models by year for Compass metal detectors, probably compiled by you? I cant seem to find it now.

Since I was not connected with the design of metal detectors, I will not comment on that question. I knew a lot of people, but with a few exceptions, I only knew them by telephone, not in person. The few exceptions were when they took the time to travel to where I had my own store. One was Ron Mack, one of the owners of Compass Electronics, who came and took me out to lunch. He then offered me the distributorship for the state of Colorado. I turned it down as a requirement was that I would have to get rid of my real estate business, and I had two successful offices in business. Another one was the Fred Brust, who had taken over the business of Ray Smith, called NTHL and at the time he came to see me, he was in Arizona working as a representative for several metal detector companies, taking orders for their machines. He was also with Minelab and with Fisher at that time as a rep. Now I knew a lot of the guys at the companies, but only by phone.

The fellow you refer to bought treasure magazines, removed advertisement pages, and offerered them for sale through his website. He endeavored to line up the models by years, but he was only partly accurate and was using dates of the magazine advs to come up with his list. I had nothing to do with his website.

I did put together a book on Compass, still have it in my computer, but decided due to cost of publication, and not that much interest, left it idle. I will put a copy of the front cover below for your interest. I did it have pretty well compiled as to month and year a model was released to dealers like myself though.

I have retained large archives of material from the past of my dealership days, and can print out and put together user manuals on Compass and some other manufactures, of vintage detectors from my archives, as I still have some booklet assembly material at my disposal. I might add that my versions of the user manuals are far superior in legibility due to my desktop publishing expertise. So if you buy any Compass machines, and require a user manual, I sell them for $10.00 and pay the shipping. I have them for all models. I only do this on those not protected by copyrights. And if you need a copy of a vintage map, let me know, if I do not have it, I probably can get it and will print it out for you, or have it printed out in large sizes.

I have published two different booklets on the Coin Magnum, and since not many were sold, they are collectables now. I have written and published many booklets since the early 1970s, and some are being sold by rare book dealers, or at least offered by rare book dealers, through Amazon, Yahoo, and Google, for sums around $700 to $800 a copy for new copies, and from $99 on up into $300 to $400 for used copies. If you are interested and email me, I will send you photos of the booklets. That will tell you my quality is well regarded. Some of my booklets from the past are in the Carnegie Library, stored in vaults in the basement, in Special Collections, History Section. They can be read there but not checked out.

Before getting into metal detecting, I used to be with the National Park Service, once roomed with Edward Paul Abbey, the environmental author, now deceased. I used to lecture on Geology with the NPS.

I used to trade schematics and service material with lots of engineers, and have a lot of factory material from that trading. My son in law used to be in charge of the R&D division of Cypress Semiconductor company, and I got to know a lot of engineers from various companies.

I used to draw schematics, and had the software to put parts of the schematics into special chips. That reduced the sizes of PCBs. I retired in 1996, and mainly gratify myself today metal detecting. I am known as a Colorado historian, and I deal with reproduction of vintage maps and vintage books, no longer secured by copyrights.

Yes there are lots of similarities in machines, as the engineers from companies moved around here and there, while changing companies, they still retained friendships with other engineers, and thus communicated back and forth regarding electronic interests. I think from that statement you can understand the answer to what you have noticed.

I used to know Ken White "Sr", and got schematics from him to repair machines I took in trade. I also got some schematics from other guys with other companies. While I am not trained in electronics, I have a very good interest and knowledge concerning lots of models.
Melbeta

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Thank you very much Melbeta for sharing your vast knowledge and experience. I'll be taking notes for sure. It is my observation that Companies somehow ended up with same designs to some extent and that this was not unusual. For example, I noticed an old Goldseekers 3D 9000 detector(Minelab?) and Whites 5000/D was same circuit (with few minor changes).

[Melbeta]

Dbanner
After I left real estate, I moved into surplus electronics. I was one of the proverbial people, who bought U.S. Govt surplus. Not going into it though. I bought for pennies, and sold for dollars. Not going into that either. I had a son who worked at an electronics plant in California. I trained him here in my surplus electronics business. Then he worked in other electronics plants here, and moved to California. Like I said, worked for a electronics plant. My daughter worked for electronics plants here, then went to Calif as her boyfriend moved to Calif too. My son was so good, his plant sent him to Japan. There he trained people in what he did. Did two trips to Japan. That plant was running good by the time he got back. You want to know what the appreciation was? They laid him off. So he moved back and went into other work then electronics. He had his lesson. My daughter married a electrical engineer, very smart guy. Worked his way up into the top echelons of the plant. Was on the Board of Directors. He was in charge of two of the R&D divisions of two of their plants in the USA. So they sent him to China, where they were opening up a new plant. He trained and trained them. Came back, they laid his wife off first, then later on, laid him off. You see, it is cheaper to open up plants in India, China, Taiwan, and Japan, then lay of the works here. Take notes on that as well.

So I kept on plugging away, a one man business. What I did I had no competition at all. I learned my lesson too. I like it my way, just like Frank Sinatra did it his way. No one lays me off this time. Yes, I got laid off in the past and learned my lesson to.

Like you said, "Companies somehow ended up with the same ideas, the same thoughts, the same designs and it was not unusual". Yes, that is right. Take notes on that too. It is easier for me to work for myself, then to spend my time making a company right. Oh, forgot to tell you my daughter and her husband, both made discoveries, got patents, the company got the patents, and they got the door! I am not bitter. It is life.

Like a professor told me when a holiday came, "IT is okay to smell the roses, and even snip some flowers, but don't bud any flowers". If you can figure that one out...

Oh, I had a lot of experience reverse engineering myself. I met many of the guys who entered chips. I knew one Russian fellow, who were here getting his doctors. He went into Motorola 40 pin MCU's, went down layer by layer. At the time he was the only guy who was successful. He rebuilt the burned fuses, and read the programs. I will not say more on that subject. It is beyond reverse engineering!
Melbeta