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Silver Sabre 2 schematic

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  • #16
    1N5229 diode

    Hello Duncan - I know you addressed Merc -
    The 1N5229 diode is a 4.3V zener, 1/4 watt. Some other Tesoro's used 1N749, which is also 4.3V 1/4 watt. All of the ICs you asked about are powered by +/- 5volts.

    Now, about the power supply decoupling capacitors. If you are going to build SS2 yourself, it cannot hurt to add them and would be foolish not to, but that is just my opinion. Tesoro has a lifetime guarantee, so their philosophy may have been to use as few parts as necessary but still get the job done. One shorted capacitor is much easier to find if there are not six or eight others in parallel with it. And, there are six or eight (times two - there are two power supplies) less parts to fail with this approach. Just make sure the PC layought is viable. My PCB is like no other I have ever seen, but from what I can tell - it has no power supply bypass caps except for the large electrolytics. There may be one or two others scattered around, but I'm not going to make sure one way or the other. If you could see my board, you would know why.

    Please let me change subject:
    Here's something I was going to write about last night but I stopped myself because I had a tough time getting my foot out of mouth from the last time I was here:
    People wanting to beef up the power supply voltage may cause the FET stabilization circuit to "saturate" (for lack of better term). A different FET might solve this - 2N4392 for example. Something else that might work is placing a resistor (about <1KΩ I think), in series with the zener. Of course you could also bypass the entire FET circuit. (Look for the Silver Sabre Plus schematic.) I think the FET is in the SS2 (and some other models) to help make the zero crossing detector outputs have more symmetrical waves. But component values are somewhat critical. I want to build a MD with this type oscillator, and I would add accomodation for another 1N4148, and a resistor, and use 2N4392 or 2N4393 (with a ten volt positive supply). Then, use a scope to tune everything.

    I have a SS2 that is a little different because it uses SMT and a hybrid PCB. I reference this SS2 schematic, but also the Bandito, and Golden Sabre. My unit's components and circuit falls somewhere in-between these, as near as I can tell. Many components are unmarked or unreadable. Resistors look like ink spots. Is this a "MicroMax" predecessor?

    I have posted a picture of my MD. It's called Silver Sabre II, but notice the HCF4016 and two LM308 opamps. I haven't seen any one schematic that cover this model.
    Attached Files

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    • #17
      Originally posted by porkluvr View Post
      Hello Duncan - I know you addressed Merc -
      The 1N5229 diode is a 4.3V zener, 1/4 watt. Some other Tesoro's used 1N749, which is also 4.3V 1/4 watt. All of the ICs you asked about are powered by +/- 5volts.

      Now, about the power supply decoupling capacitors. If you are going to build SS2 yourself, it cannot hurt to add them and would be foolish not to, but that is just my opinion. Tesoro has a lifetime guarantee, so their philosophy may have been to use as few parts as necessary but still get the job done. One shorted capacitor is much easier to find if there are not six or eight others in parallel with it. And, there are six or eight (times two - there are two power supplies) less parts to fail with this approach. Just make sure the PC layought is viable. My PCB is like no other I have ever seen, but from what I can tell - it has no power supply bypass caps except for the large electrolytics. There may be one or two others scattered around, but I'm not going to make sure one way or the other. If you could see my board, you would know why.

      Please let me change subject:
      Here's something I was going to write about last night but I stopped myself because I had a tough time getting my foot out of mouth from the last time I was here:
      People wanting to beef up the power supply voltage may cause the FET stabilization circuit to "saturate" (for lack of better term). A different FET might solve this - 2N4392 for example. Something else that might work is placing a resistor (about <1KΩ I think), in series with the zener. Of course you could also bypass the entire FET circuit. (Look for the Silver Sabre Plus schematic.) I think the FET is in the SS2 (and some other models) to help make the zero crossing detector outputs have more symmetrical waves. But component values are somewhat critical. I want to build a MD with this type oscillator, and I would add accomodation for another 1N4148, and a resistor, and use 2N4392 or 2N4393 (with a ten volt positive supply). Then, use a scope to tune everything.

      I have a SS2 that is a little different because it uses SMT and a hybrid PCB. I reference this SS2 schematic, but also the Bandito, and Golden Sabre. My unit's components and circuit falls somewhere in-between these, as near as I can tell. Many components are unmarked or unreadable. Resistors look like ink spots. Is this a "MicroMax" predecessor?

      I have posted a picture of my MD. It's called Silver Sabre II, but notice the HCF4016 and two LM308 opamps. I haven't seen any one schematic that cover this model.
      So this is a Silver Saber 2?
      Interesting design. From your extremely clear photo you can see that the screened resistors are also laser trimmed. I wonder if this was a very cost effective design.

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      • #18
        SS2 Coil information please?



        Porkluvr, many thanks for the information.
        Regarding construction and alignment/balancing the coils,
        I see from the schematic there are only two coils shown,
        the RX and the TX.
        What diameter are the coils?
        I understand the SS2 uses a concentric arrangement.
        If this is the case, isn't a "bucking" or "phasing" coil required?
        Any information please.

        regards

        Duncan

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        • #19
          who0ps

          Duncan,
          Whoops, mistake. I had caught this error before, but went ahead and posted errata anyway. The zeners are 1/2 watt units, not 1/4 Watt as I stated. Pride hurt: I hope to make this post before sombody else catches my mistake first.

          I'll try and find some good coil links for you. Give me some time. Carl had an excellent concentric coil construction article in the gateway to thunting that I will look for, but for some reason there seems th be no direct link from here. I had trouble finding it last time I looked (just a minute ago). (Carl, HELP!!!) Also, look in "Geotech Forums > Technology > Coils" from the top of this page. Look for George Payne on Google. I need more time.

          Thanks for the compliment on my photo, Qiaozhi. Tesoro made such a darn fine circuit board, I almost hate to cut it up! That, plus the fact that it's almost inscrutable - well, I may finish a Goldscan IV and a Golden "Puppy" before I even add a simple GEB pot to the front panel of the my SS2. (Well, maybe not.)

          So there are both SMD and through-hole versions of the Silver Sabre II and they have significant changes in circuitry. Interestink, no?

          Oh, my coil is 8" concentric but that's about all I could tell you about it. I use a coil data chart on another page (url unknown) somewhere in Geotech which is difficult for me to navigate. There is a bucking coil in the search head, I'm pretty sure.
          Last edited by porkluvr; 08-06-2007, 11:08 PM. Reason: addendum

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          • #20
            coil data

            Ok, Geotech's not hard to navigate, I'm just hard-headed. I found what I was looking for. You can get there by clicking the big "Geotech", then "Metal Detectors > Info". Carl's article is here. Click on "Coil Basics".
            http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...&file=info.dat
            Also, the Coil Parameters database is useful.
            Here's a link to George Payne's article
            http://jb-ms.com/Baron/gb.htm

            I've read and re-read George's article a time or two, and there are still some parts about GEB theory that absolutely baffle me - but the coil construction parts are easy to understand. I hope you'll have good luck with it. Idon't have much luck understanding some of the patent application descriptions, also.

            As I said before, browse the "Coils" section threads. And, here's the Tesoro builder's page:
            http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/f...splay.php?f=18

            The Magnum Metal Detector article has instructions for building a co-planar coil, but it's not a concentric coil. Magnum was to be my first MD but I found the Tesoros more interesting: http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...e=projects.dat

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