RELIC HAWK

[ivconic]

To argue, arguments are needed.I see no aguments here, just one says "yes" and the other "no"
Maybe developing you respective ideas we could learn something
Regards,
Fred.

Do i need to proove it is transistor??? I am not only, the one who claims "YES" or "NO". I had it, inspected it,used it and traced it...long time ago...

Besides...Fred, you should use your own eyes and logic and see the situation on pcb. You dont need me or Eclipse to know what type of component is there....
Suspecting on this particular component you are showing only that you are not fully understanding basic electronic principles.

Let's adopt that it is diode...ha,ha,ha!!! Imagine current flow there if it was diode....

I thought we all here were pretty conversant about this stuff......seems not!?
Pitty!


Or i should only understand your posts as a joke?

[Fred]

Hi Fred,
disc is still average... I can reduce ferrite impact in all-metal... but in disc mode I get signals from nails... hammer etc... not when they are close to coil, but at distance.

What about your PCB ?

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,
I hope this problem with disc will be solved:did you ty to move the coil so you can adjust shift in Rx coil,like we did in TGS, and compare disc results?
Here my PCB i waiting for parts.I can do nothing except put a few more components,and post some BS here

Let's adopt that it is diode...ha,ha,ha!!! Imagine current flow there if it was diode....
I thought we all here were pretty conversant about this stuff......seems not!?
Pitty!
Or i should only understand your posts as a joke?

Hi Ivconic,
I know this is surely a transistor,(note that the package is the same as a double diode),but my remark has nothing to do with the technical point of view, only the personal one: i see two persons claiming different things,i respect each one´s opinion, so i would like to see more constructive info,just for the sake of discussion.
Nothing more,I prefer to continue talking about RH results, but i must wait for parts,so i´m just bugging here
Best regards,
Fred.

[eclipse]

It's a pitty that you didnt show me 3 pins connected at first place,
i would taken the word back. I have the feeling that this forum is not creative enough. Be sure that not all here are electronics guru, thats why we are here to learn from each other.

Other theory: this schematic is going nowhere, ill keep watching the thread for progress but at this point i've given everything i had.

[amtech2005]

RELIC HAWK

If there is a tiny smt inductor on the Relic Hawk circuit board we did not see by the TX circuit. It is a tickler coil and the smt is a special transistor , This circuit reduces harmonics during re-generative feedback .Then it is a armstrong 5 khz configuration. The smt is a special transistor and maybe not even a linear device. Minelab had to much whiskey that day So we will fix it...............Eugene

[ivconic]

It's a pitty that you didnt show me 3 pins connected at first place,
i would taken the word back. I have the feeling that this forum is not creative enough. Be sure that not all here are electronics guru, thats why we are here to learn from each other.

Other theory: this schematic is going nowhere, ill keep watching the thread for progress but at this point i've given everything i had.

Never mind. Do not take every my word so seriously. I am joker and sometimes go over borders of good behavior. It is transistor for real, but it is not my point here.
Yes...you are right schematic is going nowhere. Max was the fastest here and made it...and reported some problems. Personally i am sure he didnt made any mistake, so ....i thought must be something we missed here? But what? Other thing also provoked me to have doubts on that transistor; like i said i recently got Coinseeker Pro2, just made, brand new...all correct components...and it is not working with my original RH coil?
How come? I pressume Bulgarians also had simillar problems and finally matched those BC337/327 to work so,so... but i guess only with their handmade coil. When checked with original...not working?
Must be that transistor. Thats' why i do insist that we first try to find out which one is that!? Damn. It is not possible that all we here are not able to dig it!

[ivconic]

If there is a tiny smt inductor on the Relic Hawk circuit board we did not see by the TX circuit. It is a tickler coil and the smt is a special transistor , This circuit reduces harmonics during re-generative feedback .Then it is a armstrong 5 khz configuration. The smt is a special transistor and maybe not even a linear device. Minelab had to much whiskey that day So we will fix it...............Eugene

Yes..special, but which one? I am now mad cose sold Colt and RH. I could desoldered it and examine in details....

[KingJL]

disc is still average... I can reduce ferrite impact in all-metal... but in disc mode I get signals from nails... hammer etc... not when they are close to coil, but at distance.

Max, just for grins reverse your RX coil leads. See what effect that has. A coil 180 out would still null out ferrite (GB) but would have very erratic DISC.

If that has no beneficial effect, then consider that this RH might need the coil null adjusted while looking at output from preamp to overcome the ~10mV fed from the RX through the 4.7M to the preamp.

Kind regards,
J. L. King

[Max]

Max, just for grins reverse your RX coil leads. See what effect that has. A coil 180 out would still null out ferrite (GB) but would have very erratic DISC.

If that has no beneficial effect, then consider that this RH might need the coil null adjusted while looking at output from preamp to overcome the ~10mV fed from the RX through the 4.7M to the preamp.

Kind regards,
J. L. King

Hi,
yes, right, I will try reversing leads, it worked many times in past. Also about preamp the 4M7 resistor is something there isn't in many other designs... good to pay attention to it and its related effects.

At now device works, I can null ferrite totally in disc mode, I can null it at few cms in all-metal, detection is enough for coil dimensions only real problem is disc that's unreliable when targets are far... 15cm or more from coil.

I mean, you have not large beeps at far distances on e.g. iron targets, just fast/short beeps but that will be confusing on the field, cause are similar to good targets beeps at greater depth.

I've changed the LM393 yesterday... using 393AN kind but change nothing, problem is not there.

I'm looking forward to find the possible source of problems but so far I cannot spot it right.

Also, till now I've made all tests in "M" mode that's default for RH, but I need to try device in "S" and "L" modes too to see what happens.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
I've made some tests in S and L modes...
results: in S mode detector is similar to M mode, same detection range, average with same problems.

In L mode I think it's like a motorcicle... cause of the hum-buzz the speaker gives at output.

Don't know why but in L mode device works very bad... probably is not tuned well I think. Lot of this buzz sound, kind of a ramp of noise...

Not much interesting apart that in S mode seems works a little better.

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi

Hi,
Max.
S-M-L all the same all rock stable!
I loved most M.Other are specialized I think.
So something is still wrong there!
But first we need original coil copyed!Ivconic did you have time to finish your copy?And if so what are datas?
Thanks

[Max]

update... about phase

Hi,
I've made a simulation till comparators... and got about same phase I get from measures...

for example:

in measures I get 79.2° for GEB at fully CCW and I get from simulations 82.48° there...

You see... not big differences... about 3-4°... maximum I've found is around 7° about disc that happens only when geb pot is fully CW.

So, the PCB/circuit is like expected, no errors and timing is the same as from schematic we have.

This confirms problem is somewhere else... maybe at coil ?

Kind regards,
Max

[amtech2005]

RELIC HAWK

MAX , I think The Relic Hawk Has used Armstrong-tickler configuration for oscillator to elimate Harmonics. So the smt "unknown transistor" is special purpose , and hidden somewhere , or on the back of the circuit board must be tiny smt inductor for tickler coil. Could this be late 1990s V-Flex technology without the "V" ......I think the Musketeer used this circuit also !!!.....Let us know what you think especially if your checking oscillation at tx circuit again.....Take Care.........Eugene

[Fred]

Just received the components today

SuperRH is back on tracks!
Regards,
Fred.

[Max]

MAX , I think The Relic Hawk Has used Armstrong-tickler configuration for oscillator to elimate Harmonics. So the smt "unknown transistor" is special purpose , and hidden somewhere , or on the back of the circuit board must be tiny smt inductor for tickler coil. Could this be late 1990s V-Flex technology without the "V" ......I think the Musketeer used this circuit also !!!.....Let us know what you think especially if your checking oscillation at tx circuit again.....Take Care.........Eugene

Hi Eugene,
to me the oscillator is working good with BC327 and BC337 there. I get more than 16Vpp at coil... that's what expected I think.

I don't know if ML have some special configuration hidden about oscillator... what I know is that it works like we have in the schematics... just particular transistor are employed to gain oscillations and stability.

Anyway... I'm a bit disappointed by disc... not oscillator. I expected problems at oscillator when I saw schematic the first time... but sure I wouldn't expect bad disc from RH.

Just another puzzle... probably there's something wrong in schematic not already spotted.

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

MAX , I think The Relic Hawk Has used Armstrong-tickler configuration for oscillator to elimate Harmonics. So the smt "unknown transistor" is special purpose , and hidden somewhere , or on the back of the circuit board must be tiny smt inductor for tickler coil. Could this be late 1990s V-Flex technology without the "V" ......I think the Musketeer used this circuit also !!!.....Let us know what you think especially if your checking oscillation at tx circuit again.....Take Care.........Eugene

Hi,
Ivconic told us it is no J-fet, just transistor.He knows what he says.

Max, what transistor did you use for audio output? BC517?

regards,
Fred.