RELIC HAWK

[Fred]

What bugs me is fact that there are not those capacitors on original RH...? So...
Ok...NE5532 could be used at some places, but i dont see why it is better than TLC272?
I guess i must wait Max to return here....

Hi Ivconic,
Thanks for the interesting report.
Those caps are here,(see picture below) and they are important.
I wish i could help about this, but i made the circuit and stopped at beginning of summer, i will continue the work very soon.
Max have made a lot more experiments with it, and hope he will come back soon.Last message from him he was refering problems, and said he will not come here so soon,this was maybe 2 weeks ago.
He also found some offset voltage at U8 and made some changes with connection to 6k8 resistor near U9 pin9 ,but i didn´t made them on PCB as we agreed that although they improved stability they were not so logical.
Max conclusion was that there was probably a small mistake on the diagram somewhere, but a test with real coil would be very interesting, he could not adjust GB to completely ignore iron at some distance and thought it could be from the coil : we don´t know offset at waveforms for sure.
I think there was some other small detail, but i cant remember where right now.
I know that after building it Max carefully checked the PCB many times to find problems,and i immediatley corrected the important mistakes,so last PCB version is updated.
When Max built his version there were no ground plane yet,and he spotted an awfull ground loop too that was inducing voltage, so i made the ground plane version PCB.
At least detection range is very good.Hope we can solve intability problems.

regards,
Fred.

[ivconic]

Hi Ivconic,
Thanks for the interesting report.
Those caps are here,(see picture below) and they are important.
I wish i could help about this, but i made the circuit and stopped at beginning of summer, i will continue the work very soon.
Max have made a lot more experiments with it, and hope he will come back soon.Last message from him he was refering problems, and said he will not come here so soon,this was maybe 2 weeks ago.
He also found some offset voltage at U8 and made some changes with connection to 6k8 resistor near U9 pin9 ,but i didn´t made them on PCB as we agreed that although they improved stability they were not so logical.
Max conclusion was that there was probably a small mistake on the diagram somewhere, but a test with real coil would be very interesting, he could not adjust GB to completely ignore iron at some distance and thought it could be from the coil : we don´t know offset at waveforms for sure.
I think there was some other small detail, but i cant remember where right now.
I know that after building it Max carefully checked the PCB many times to find problems,and i immediatley corrected the important mistakes,so last PCB version is updated.
When Max built his version there were no ground plane yet,and he spotted an awfull ground loop too that was inducing voltage, so i made the ground plane version PCB.
At least detection range is very good.Hope we can solve intability problems.

regards,
Fred.

Yes you are right; those are noted there....
Guess what; i used last pcb draw..but i removed ground plane in SL before preparing film for printing on pcb...ha,ha,ha!!!! What stupid move i made!!!
Maybe i made crucial mistake!!!
I personally do not aprove ground planes on pcb like this one, that's why i moved it. I guess i made mistake. Never mind. For example take original pcb, it is smt and ground plane is on bottom layer...but most important fact is Al metalic enclosure for original RH. Recently man who bought original RH pcb from me came and we tested RH after he repaired it. We tested it without enclosure and guess what - bedlam of falses and instabillity also. So...i presume that when this handmade packed in metalic enclosure, huge percent of instabillity will be solved anyway.
About capacitors...why those are not included in pcb draw? It is job now to add them on already populated pcb...hmm, some job.

Way how this my handmade is working now is giving me a hopes that schematic is accurate, so as pcb. Maybe some slice...possibly mistaken component..but i think not...i think this is it.
Also keep in mind that original RH does not have speaker included, just earphone plug.
Today i discovered huge negative influence from speaker to rest of pcb.
It was just enough to take speaker in hand and approx. 30% of instabillity disapeared in front of my eyes!!!
So .... damn, i am back on the begining - same story as with TGSL...we must adapt present RH project to work with ordinary speaker without intermodulations with it.
I was thinking to remove BSR51 (MPSA 13 ) and to put some strong fet there.
But it would be very interesting we to analyze Musketeer's audio, cose on skim look, those 2 audios looks exactly the same. Yet Musketeer do have speaker and volume control and RH dont???
I had both RH and Musketeer, but at the time, i was not interested to open box and examine details....how lazy i was!? Damn!? Now i do have regrets!!
Now i am trying to spot something interesting on photos i have...yet without success...photos are low resolution, low quality, and it is not possiblle to use them and see some details arround audio at Musketeer...sheeeshh!

I guess Max have problems with Disc just because of inproper coil he is using with it.
Why? Because i dont have simillar problems at all. My handamade is working erratically but Disc is working perfect. Iron is rejected totally from 1cm over coil surface..up to end of detection range..
So it shows that Max's coil is not perfect at all. Something he made wrong there.
I took skim reading on previous posts ( i am tired and dont have enough concentration to follow all the posts)
but i noticed some pretty small resistances Max mentioned there? TX coil is over 3 ohms for sure and RX over 30 ...so...
Pitty Max is not here now...
Ok...we will wait him to come back.
Fred...i have device on table. Tell me what ever you want me to measure and i will...
Problem is i dont have second probe for my scope..just one so far. I cant use both channels by now.
I will make diy probe in next few days...at least for some elementar readings..

[Eugene52]

RELIC HAWK

Ivconic , Somewhere posted on Geotech , are very sharp Musketeer photos , I am searching again , and I will re-post the photos if I am lucky and find them !!........Regards....Eugene / Stalni-clan / Junior Member

[ivconic]

Yes you are right! I remember saw those somewhere....but where??
Might be we pull out some benefits from those?

[Eugene52]

RELIC HAWK

MR. IVCONIC , This might help ?? I will keep looking for the other side . This one today is not too bad and its from Forum member GTK , ...........I will keep looking........Regards....Eugene / Junior Member / Stalni-Clan of Hobi-Detektori

[Fred]

Recently man who bought original RH pcb from me came and we tested RH after he repaired it. We tested it without enclosure and guess what - bedlam of falses and instabillity also. So...i presume that when this handmade packed in metalic enclosure, huge percent of instabillity will be solved anyway. [/FONT]
About capacitors...why those are not included in pcb draw? It is job now to add them on already populated pcb...hmm, some job.

Today i discovered huge negative influence from speaker to rest of pcb.
It was just enough to take speaker in hand and approx. 30% of instabillity disapeared in front of my eyes!!!
So .... damn, i am back on the begining - same story as with TGSL...we must adapt present RH project to work with ordinary speaker without intermodulations with it.
I was thinking to remove BSR51 (MPSA 13 ) and to put some strong fet there.
But it would be very interesting we to analyze Musketeer's audio, cose on skim look, those 2 audios looks exactly the same. Yet Musketeer do have speaker and volume control and RH dont???
I guess Max have problems with Disc just because of inproper coil he is using with it.
Why? Because i dont have simillar problems at all. My handamade is working erratically but Disc is working perfect. Iron is rejected totally from 1cm over coil surface..up to end of detection range..
So it shows that Max's coil is not perfect at all. Something he made wrong there.
I took skim reading on previous posts ( i am tired and dont have enough concentration to follow all the posts)
but i noticed some pretty small resistances Max mentioned there? TX coil is over 3 ohms for sure and RX over 30 ...so...
Pitty Max is not here now...
Ok...we will wait him to come back.
Fred...i have device on table. Tell me what ever you want me to measure and i will...
Problem is i dont have second probe for my scope..just one so far. I cant use both channels by now.
I will make diy probe in next few days...at least for some elementar readings..

Hi Ivconic,
That´s good news about the disc and speaker influence.We must try metallic enclosure too.
If you removed GP i guess you had to make all new traces again to connect ground to components...but that leads to loops somewhere.
About the caps, i could not find a way to include them in PCB yet keeping leads short, so i decided that hey will be soldered on the other side, below ic´s.better performances this way, even if it will not look so nice.
About speaker influence over stability, one could just connect a separate power supply foa audio amp and see how it improves.

I still have to build the coil, so any information you have that could help building it right one will be appreciated.

Best regards,
Fred.

[Max]

Yes you are right; those are noted there....
Guess what; i used last pcb draw..but i removed ground plane in SL before preparing film for printing on pcb...ha,ha,ha!!!! What stupid move i made!!!
Maybe i made crucial mistake!!!
I personally do not aprove ground planes on pcb like this one, that's why i moved it. I guess i made mistake. Never mind. For example take original pcb, it is smt and ground plane is on bottom layer...but most important fact is Al metalic enclosure for original RH. Recently man who bought original RH pcb from me came and we tested RH after he repaired it. We tested it without enclosure and guess what - bedlam of falses and instabillity also. So...i presume that when this handmade packed in metalic enclosure, huge percent of instabillity will be solved anyway.
About capacitors...why those are not included in pcb draw? It is job now to add them on already populated pcb...hmm, some job.

Way how this my handmade is working now is giving me a hopes that schematic is accurate, so as pcb. Maybe some slice...possibly mistaken component..but i think not...i think this is it.
Also keep in mind that original RH does not have speaker included, just earphone plug.
Today i discovered huge negative influence from speaker to rest of pcb.
It was just enough to take speaker in hand and approx. 30% of instabillity disapeared in front of my eyes!!!
So .... damn, i am back on the begining - same story as with TGSL...we must adapt present RH project to work with ordinary speaker without intermodulations with it.
I was thinking to remove BSR51 (MPSA 13 ) and to put some strong fet there.
But it would be very interesting we to analyze Musketeer's audio, cose on skim look, those 2 audios looks exactly the same. Yet Musketeer do have speaker and volume control and RH dont???
I had both RH and Musketeer, but at the time, i was not interested to open box and examine details....how lazy i was!? Damn!? Now i do have regrets!!
Now i am trying to spot something interesting on photos i have...yet without success...photos are low resolution, low quality, and it is not possiblle to use them and see some details arround audio at Musketeer...sheeeshh!

I guess Max have problems with Disc just because of inproper coil he is using with it.
Why? Because i dont have simillar problems at all. My handamade is working erratically but Disc is working perfect. Iron is rejected totally from 1cm over coil surface..up to end of detection range..
So it shows that Max's coil is not perfect at all. Something he made wrong there.
I took skim reading on previous posts ( i am tired and dont have enough concentration to follow all the posts)
but i noticed some pretty small resistances Max mentioned there? TX coil is over 3 ohms for sure and RX over 30 ...so...
Pitty Max is not here now...
Ok...we will wait him to come back.
Fred...i have device on table. Tell me what ever you want me to measure and i will...
Problem is i dont have second probe for my scope..just one so far. I cant use both channels by now.
I will make diy probe in next few days...at least for some elementar readings..

Hi,
I'm sorry I cannot read here much and post at now about, have really huge troubles these days and really no time to mess with MDs and hobbies.

I used all that caps under the RH's PCB, that's essential to keep it quiet.

I also removed a very bad ground loop...caused lot of noise in signal path.

My disc problem is with iron at far distance, maybe depends on coil I made.

I don't know at now when I will be back here to discuss details, hope will be soon.

Kind regards,
Max

[Eugene52]

Hi,
I'm sorry I cannot read here much and post at now about, have really huge troubles these days and really no time to mess with MDs and hobbies.

I used all that caps under the RH's PCB, that's essential to keep it quiet.

I also removed a very bad ground loop...caused lot of noise in signal path.

My disc problem is with iron at far distance, maybe depends on coil I made.

I don't know at now when I will be back here to discuss details, hope will be soon.

Kind regards,
Max

Max ,

All of us here are waiting for your return , The sooner the better !!! Kind Regards and Best Wishes from all of us !!!!!!!! ..........Eugene

[ivconic]

Eugene that is the one. Yet i can not see audio wirements proprerly....all the components seems same asa on RH..
Anyway thank you!

[ivconic]

Hi Ivconic,
That´s good news about the disc and speaker influence.We must try metallic enclosure too.
If you removed GP i guess you had to make all new traces again to connect ground to components...but that leads to loops somewhere.
About the caps, i could not find a way to include them in PCB yet keeping leads short, so i decided that hey will be soldered on the other side, below ic´s.better performances this way, even if it will not look so nice.
About speaker influence over stability, one could just connect a separate power supply foa audio amp and see how it improves.

I still have to build the coil, so any information you have that could help building it right one will be appreciated.

Best regards,
Fred.

About coil...i already gave datas of original coil.
You can try to make your own respecting inductances and resistances.
Next time i switch on RH i will measure residual voltage on RX coil and post here.

[ivconic]

Hi,
I'm sorry I cannot read here much and post at now about, have really huge troubles these days and really no time to mess with MDs and hobbies.

I used all that caps under the RH's PCB, that's essential to keep it quiet.

I also removed a very bad ground loop...caused lot of noise in signal path.

My disc problem is with iron at far distance, maybe depends on coil I made.

I don't know at now when I will be back here to discuss details, hope will be soon.

Kind regards,
Max

Ok Max, take your time. This is only hobby, can wait. Wish you to overcome your problems as soon as possible and to come back here.
Best regards!

[ivconic]

I added 100nF caps on all ic's supply pins. And i lost all !!!???
Now, sound is very weak, bairly audible and detection is none....1e coin bairly at 5cm in the air!?!?!?
It is more "stabille" now....although there are some ocassionall background chatters in audio.
So... new moment now..!? Hmmm...
In previous posts i beleived that we have final and error free schematic and pcb, now....i am not so sure any more..
Cose...i do have original coil and coil is not in question anymore.
Something is mistaken...

[Max]

I added 100nF caps on all ic's supply pins. And i lost all !!!???
Now, sound is very weak, bairly audible and detection is none....1e coin bairly at 5cm in the air!?!?!?
It is more "stabille" now....although there are some ocassionall background chatters in audio.
So... new moment now..!? Hmmm...
In previous posts i beleived that we have final and error free schematic and pcb, now....i am not so sure any more..
Cose...i do have original coil and coil is not in question anymore.
Something is mistaken...

Hi,
I connected caps under the PCB using kind of flying mounting for them. I used an open loop (made of solid, rigid wire) as gnd track.

Be sure you didn't made a big ground loop when doing this, that could explain bad performance.

I'm really sorry I cannot follow this thread and all forums at that time, but I will try to look at here when possible.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Max ,

All of us here are waiting for your return , The sooner the better !!! Kind Regards and Best Wishes from all of us !!!!!!!! ..........Eugene

Thank you, I really appreciate, it's really troublesome and sad time for me at now.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

No,no...this is totally wrong,mismatched.
I am not gonna waste my time and nervs on this trash. Schematic is full of mistakes so logically pcb too. Also pcb is not good drawn at all.
5kg hammer will do the job in a minute!
This is far away from any descent working and behaving.
I already lost so many time and nervs on pretty nonsenced and foolish drawn bulgarian "Coinseeker"...now i am wasting my time on this..!?
No more!
There are other nice and workable projects i could spend my time smarter.
I am OFF this subject from now on.