Opinions of Side Scan Sonar

[Unregistered]

Hi
Looking to find the plane - we have access to very cheap fuel so cost is not a problem.
Pretty pictures are not the concern, but being as the object is quite small, being able to define it is.
I still have not seen any photos of the sportscan in action apart from the makers ones, so am looking to check to make sure this machine does what in says on the can?

Cheers
jeff

this was taken with a dual frequency SportScan on High freq. in Lake Erie off Cleveland, Ohio in 2005
http://www.clueshipwrecks.com/Dundee.html

[corlay]

side scan sonar

Hi,

I'm also interested in Burton's side scan sonar and I've purchased one. I'm still learning how to use it. I think one needs some learning curse before bieng able to read all the data correctly. You are in England and i'm in northern France near St Malo in Britanny. It might be not so far from your living place.
I was wondering whether we might be able to find any possibility to work together on your project or anything else.
I'm also looking for new wrecks waiting to be discovered, around the Channel Islands and northern Britanny.
If you are interested, leave me a message and I'll try to get in touch with you.

Gérard CORLAY=Unregistered]Hi, new to ths site.
I am currently looking to purchase a side scan sonar to mount an expedition to look for a lost aeroplane here in sunny England.
I have never heard of the Garry Burton side scan before? Is it any good-The photos look amazing and better than any i have seen taken with the imagnex sportscan. Has anyone got the website for the Garry Burton one?
The area i have to cover is quite large so i think the extra coverage given by the sportscan would be better, but is it as good?
Does anyone have any photos of the sportscan in action, apart from the ones given by the makers.Could you put them on please as i would love to see them to compare them with the garry burton photos.

Also instead of towing the fish behind the boat would it be possible to put it one a solid pole straight over the side of the boat. The area i am searching is not that deep 30Mts very max with most depths around the 5-10 m mark, but can go shallow very quickly. Would having it on a solid pole be better for control and safety of the towfish in these conditions.

What is the best speed to tow a fish with?

Will using the fish when the tide is running make a difference to the picture quality?

Hope someone can answer these few questions- have loads more, so look forward to talking to you guys
Cheers
Jeff lewis[/quote]

[diverelvis]

wow

this was taken with a dual frequency SportScan on High freq. in Lake Erie off Cleveland, Ohio in 2005
http://www.clueshipwrecks.com/Dundee.html

Wow- What a photo
Is the machine as easy to use as it seems?
I think you have me convinced though.

Cheers
jeff

[Glennk]

Wow- What a photo
Is the machine as easy to use as it seems?
I think you have me convinced though.

Cheers
jeff

When you get a hold of it it is quite easy, but to get good iages are not that easy.
Compare these two images, the first from the Sportscan 800kHz unit, and the secod image from the Butrom M1 unit that costs less than half of the Sportscan (and thats a complete unit, not needing a computer and separate GPS as the Sportscan does)





I have had both systems, and I liked the Burton system more than the Sportscan, as I got better images from the M1 unit.

Glenn

[Glennk]

Hi, new to ths site.
I am currently looking to purchase a side scan sonar to mount an expedition to look for a lost aeroplane here in sunny England.
I have never heard of the Garry Burton side scan before? Is it any good-The photos look amazing and better than any i have seen taken with the imagnex sportscan. Has anyone got the website for the Garry Burton one?
The area i have to cover is quite large so i think the extra coverage given by the sportscan would be better, but is it as good?
Does anyone have any photos of the sportscan in action, apart from the ones given by the makers.Could you put them on please as i would love to see them to compare them with the garry burton photos.

There are quite a few images from the Burton system on this site, but if you'd like more images please send me an PM with your e-mail address, and I'll e-mail you even more images and links for other peoples images.
The images on the Burton electronics wev page is actually no better than the images we are able to produce out in the field, I have seen far more better images than the ones on the Burton site.

Also instead of towing the fish behind the boat would it be possible to put it one a solid pole straight over the side of the boat. The area i am searching is not that deep 30Mts very max with most depths around the 5-10 m mark, but can go shallow very quickly. Would having it on a solid pole be better for control and safety of the towfish in these conditions.

Yuo could easily mount the fish on a pole or other arrangement, BUT it need to be "dead" mounted, as is can NOT be moving even a little during survey. If it is "vibrating" when it goes through the water, the image will be distortet.

What is the best speed to tow a fish with?

1.5-2 knots is the speed I have found to be the best. This speed is taken thet you run the system on max resolution (ping speed) and chart speed.
If others have other experience please let me know!

Will using the fish when the tide is running make a difference to the picture quality?

Unless the tidal current are wery strong I can not see that this would make any problems for the quality on the images. The thing might be that you can have problems when going in the same direction as the current, the towfish might jaw/wobbel a bit, giving you "blurred" images.

Hope someone can answer these few questions- have loads more, so look forward to talking to you guys
Cheers
Jeff lewis

I hope that this could give you some answers to your questions.
And I must say that Garry Burton is a nice guy, I have no problem to recomend him as your supplier of sidescan sonar equipement.

Please register on the GeoTech web site, so we all can keep in touch!

regards,
Glenn

[Unregistered]

How big is the plane

How big is the plane?
When do you plan to look for it ,I may be in the UK next summer on holidays with my sportscan unit .
I think the sportscan software is much easier to use than the Burton software which appears to be a little tricky to set up.
The Burton appears to have ONE very good transducer spliced on to a good fish finder with the limitations of a fish finder software but then you don't need a laptop or windows to run it so there is no way it could be as flexible as the sportscan in terms of software.
The software for the Burton does not appear to have been modified in any way from the software for the fish finder so basicity you are paying for a cable and a one eyed fish there does not seem to be any improvements to the software.
The image from the Burton unit is better but it appears it needs more skill to set it up
Also the biggest disadvantage of the Burton unit is you don't cover the same amount of area just looking out one side.Imagne searching for lost body in water and been only allowed to look out one side of the boat , I understand the latest Burton unit will address these issues and at that stage I may well buy one ,in the mean time buy a sportscan and you will be up and running in a few hours

[Glennk]

I can partly agree with you on some points. But the software for the Burton sonar is the Lowrance sonar viewer software. But there are some persons working on a software that displays even more detailed images than the Lowrance software.
It is not tricky at all to set up, but you need a few hours to test out and familiar with the system, just to learn to know what gain settings and so to use.
After that, the images are quite easy to aquire.

And since the data from the Sportscan is digital, you have no way to adjust gain afterwards, as on the Burton system.

And you still need a computer with a SD/MMC interface to get the most out of the Burton. This together with the fact that the Burton is only one channel is the only drawbacks of this system.

Yes, you migt say that you pay for the cable and a very good transducer, but still its fairly cheap.
What sonar system you preffere will vary from person to person, but personally I feel more comfortable using the Burton before the Sportscan.
Not at least since the Burton M1 can be used in an open boat and under wet conditions.

Glenn

[Unregistered]

you forgot

Also the biggest disadvantage of the Burton unit is you don't cover the same amount of area just looking out one side.Imagne searching for lost body in water and been only allowed to look out one side of the boat , I understand the latest Burton unit will address these issues and at that stage I may well buy one ,in the mean time buy a sportscan and you will be up and running in a few hours

[Glennk]

Also the biggest disadvantage of the Burton unit is you don't cover the same amount of area just looking out one side.Imagne searching for lost body in water and been only allowed to look out one side of the boat , I understand the latest Burton unit will address these issues and at that stage I may well buy one ,in the mean time buy a sportscan and you will be up and running in a few hours

Just what I wrote...

And you still need a computer with a SD/MMC interface to get the most out of the Burton. This together with the fact that the Burton is only one channel is the only drawbacks of this system.

I am also awaiting for info on the dual channel system from Burton, as his transducers are wery good, and produce very good images.

Glenn

[diverelvis]

meet the team

Thanks for all the info guys.
Trouble is i still don't know what to do as both systems seem to have their own capabilities. Does anyone else have any more photos of the sportscan i can have a look at?
Going back to the question on mounting the system. When you say it has to be( dead mounted) does this mean fixed at at a solid set angle? Also would the slight rocking motion of the boat upset the image if it was soildly attached? If so would it be better attached to a line that is less likely to cause the fish to move, due to the slight slack in the line?
Also what is the best seach method to apply over a large search area?

Anyway let me introduce myself.
My name is Jeff Lewis and I have been involved in scuba diving for many years. I have been a PADI instructor since 1990 and worked abroad for a couple of seasons. Decided to come back to England as the money is not very good as an instructor ( good life style though) and set up my own small dive shop which i ran for 6 years. Decided I needed a career change and got involved at my local college as a tutor and have worked for them for the past 4 years. I have now moved on again and have set up as an independant tutor. The reason i have mentioned all of this is because i now have spare time to pursue my other interests. I can imagine the thrill of getting an image on the screen and being able to go back and dive it- school boy dreams stuff this!!!.
I have vast experience of different diving conditions and have dived on the D day landing wrecks of France (strong currents) and the deep wrecks at scapa flow plus hundreds of wrecks around the coast.
My brother who will also be helping out on the trips when available is an ex commercial diver and has just got a job as a trainer ROV pilot for one of the big oil companys on a 4 weeks on 4 weeks of, shift. We hope to time our searchs for when he gets back from duty. The other member of the team is a Padi dive Master who is keen to expand his knowledge. That is us folks.
Still have loads more questions, as new to this searching.
Cheers guys

[Glennk]

Thanks for all the info guys.
Trouble is i still don't know what to do as both systems seem to have their own capabilities. Does anyone else have any more photos of the sportscan i can have a look at?

I'll post some images by the Sportscan later this evening.
But I can try to make some objective +/- about the Sportscan and the Burton system.

--Sportscan--
+Dual channel, covering more seafloor per hour.
+Easy to use and deploy
+.81S file format supported by most mosaiq software (and convertable to e.g. XTF format)

-100% dependable on a computer and a GPS
-The cost of the system (from US$5500 +GPS +computer)
-Poor images
-Only waterproof to a pressure equal to 30msw
-The electronics is housed in the fish, bad if you got a leak
-No way to adjust gain when running playback (it is set when you scan, digital data from fish)

--Burton M1--
+Great images
+Nice price! GPS and sonar display included, NO need of PC to do sidescans
+"ultra portable" as it is wery light, and does not take up much space
+You can not drown the transducer, as it is moulded
+Analoge signal trough the cable to the top side unit, you are able to adjust gain settings for playback when running on a computer
+Adjustable angle for the transducer

-Single channel, scans only one side at a time
-Need to copy files from MMC/SD card over to a computer to get 100% out of the images

Going back to the question on mounting the system. When you say it has to be( dead mounted) does this mean fixed at at a solid set angle? Also would the slight rocking motion of the boat upset the image if it was soildly attached? If so would it be better attached to a line that is less likely to cause the fish to move, due to the slight slack in the line?
Also what is the best seach method to apply over a large search area?

Yes, all motion in the transducer will degrade the image. Also the slightest motion will be noticed. Towig the transducer in a towfish behind the boat will be a better alternative.

To search a lagre area need some planning. A chart system onboard will help, as straight search lines are the best way to cover an area and get the best images.

Anyway let me introduce myself.
My name is Jeff Lewis and I have been involved in scuba diving for many years. I have been a PADI instructor since 1990 and worked abroad for a couple of seasons. Decided to come back to England as the money is not very good as an instructor ( good life style though) and set up my own small dive shop which i ran for 6 years. Decided I needed a career change and got involved at my local college as a tutor and have worked for them for the past 4 years. I have now moved on again and have set up as an independant tutor. The reason i have mentioned all of this is because i now have spare time to pursue my other interests. I can imagine the thrill of getting an image on the screen and being able to go back and dive it- school boy dreams stuff this!!!.
I have vast experience of different diving conditions and have dived on the D day landing wrecks of France (strong currents) and the deep wrecks at scapa flow plus hundreds of wrecks around the coast.
My brother who will also be helping out on the trips when available is an ex commercial diver and has just got a job as a trainer ROV pilot for one of the big oil companys on a 4 weeks on 4 weeks of, shift. We hope to time our searchs for when he gets back from duty. The other member of the team is a Padi dive Master who is keen to expand his knowledge. That is us folks.
Still have loads more questions, as new to this searching.
Cheers guys

Nice to meet you Jeff!
Welcome amongst other SSS enthusiasts!

I am also a commercial diver, but I had a back surgery on monday, so I don't know if I'm able to continue as a diver. Maybe I'll try to get employment as a ROV pilot to, as I have some experience.

Cheers,

Glenn

[Glennk]

Does anyone else have any more photos of the sportscan i can have a look at?

Here we go....

No need to tell what this is....


Rocks on sandy bottom



A dredged channel for the oldest steamwheeler still in traffic, The SS Skibladner


A barge covered in mud


The Sportscan towfish

[diverelvis]

sidescan

Thanks for all that info,
I need to decide what i am going to do?
Anyone have any ideas on why the Burton system has better photo images than the sportscan?
I like the idea of the sportscan as I already have a laptop, like the idea of plug and go, covers both sides at once.Am concerned about the quality of the pics, due to being able to pick out a small object may be harder to do. Why is life so full of problems??
Sorry to hear about your back-Good idea about getting into the ROV scene as all the big companys are recruiting at the moment, due to the price of oil and the way the industry is going with deeper searchs to find the stuff and less bottom time for the divers-safer and cheaper in the long run. One company has just recruited 25 ROV pilots in this country. Hope it all works out!!

Cheers
jeff

[Glennk]

Thanks for all that info,
I need to decide what i am going to do?
Anyone have any ideas on why the Burton system has better photo images than the sportscan?

Yes, it i based partly on the ping speed (ping per second) and the with of the ping pulse.

I like the idea of the sportscan as I already have a laptop, like the idea of plug and go, covers both sides at once.Am concerned about the quality of the pics, due to being able to pick out a small object may be harder to do. Why is life so full of problems??

The Sportscan is a nice unit, if you need quict deployment and have a dry/heated space for your computer. The Sportscan also have no way to adjust gain settings at a later point, as it can only be done when scanning.
And you would need a separate GPS, as vell as some kind of power source for the computer. A laptop battery that lasts for 2-3 hours will not be enough for a sidescan.

What system to choose is a personal matter. I preffere the Burton, as it give me better images. But some times I miss the easy use of the Sportscan.

Anyhow, both these systems are "entry level" systems into the world of sidescan, and would probably be sold i favor of more complex and more expensive systems after some use.

regards,
Glenn