Manta !!

[kt315]

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp1T7iN-4kvEtaUjFjRDhug

if your project so smart and you open the thread in Tech forum, so where the schematic, black-white layout, part list and instruction on assembly?
WHERE?
I see only bare bla-bla-bla. sorry but if you are the topickiller be so accommodating smart boy to share ALL INFORMATION
everybody could repeated it.

[sinclairuser]

its a commercial project KT 315, it should not even be posted here, it belongs in the free advertising thread.
looking into this detectors history a bit, it looks like they have fallen into the trap of adding more and more features, instead of releasing it and putting new stuff in V2.

[daverave]

you can bet the manta will be very expensive...if you look at one of their videos it shows good depth on a 2 euro coin...which is made partly of iron which will of course give good depth because of iron content...and you can only hear one tone which i thought this machine had at lest two tones...and how do they get 17 volts worth of li-ion batteries into such a small control box with pcb....not sure what i think of this machine.

[WM6]

Seems as abandoned project, they even are not able to post clear picture of control panel, not to say of main-board .....

[daverave]

l noticed too there is no close up of the front panel...i wonder what pulse machine this manta is based on ???? maybe a barracuda

[sinclairuser]

thats why a lot of detectors like this never get past the flashy advert, they seem terrified to show its control panel, you never see a proper spec sheet.
my guess is its either,
a- copied from another machine,
b- works fantastic on the bench but craps out on real ground,
c- they never intended to sell it themselves, they expected some other manufacturer to snap it up(no chance of that in the current financial climate),
d- like i said before too busy improving the design, instead of building detectors, combined with too many fingers in the pie.

the only thing that gets my goat is that upon realising its not going to happen they keep up the pretense, instead of being honest about it.

beach hunting is missing both a starter/budget PI, and an intermediate PI, i dont understand why one of the biggies like bounty hunter, or whites dont sell cheap budget PI systems for the beach, there are hundreds of cheap detectors out there and none are PI, it can be done we do it, major players can but dont its sad.

[daverave]

i see on facebook detecting site some people have these manta detectors so the people who made them must be selling some to the public but not full scale production...seems very strange why they have made what looks like on video a good detector but nothing has happened

[ivconic]

i see on facebook detecting site some people have these manta detectors so the people who made them must be selling some to the public but not full scale production...seems very strange why they have made what looks like on video a good detector but nothing has happened

That's not rare case. I can recall several similar stories.
Most common problem are funds. Investments.
It is so hard to obtain enough funds to start serious enterprise.
Majority of such cases ends up on niche market, sold several pieces per year only to narrow number of people.
I guess authors are pretty much satisfied with such quantity of sale and money they collect.
Also there is a chance and risk to be prosecuted by "big" players due copyright.
These days seems everything is "copyrighted". So is better to stay "small", unknown and "not important" and maintain small niche business on limited market.
On the other hand; maybe Manta detector is nothing especial. Maybe is designed only for special and precise use on beaches for small group of people, and not interesting for other kind of uses and wider markets.
Who's gonna know what is hidden behind the bushes!
(Usually it is rabbit or bushman!!)

[Nupi]

@daverave
"..which is made partly of iron which will of course give good depth because of iron content..."
You are mistaken, two euro does not have iron in it.
2 euro composition
Outer segment: nickel - brass
Inner segment: nickel - copper .

But it seems an interesting detector.

@ivconic
I think you are right, investors' money is often the problem.
And if there are posted on youtube videos of your idea or product, most manufacturers of metal detectors usually have no more interest to buy your product / idea.
(Usually it is rabbit or bushrabbit!!)?

[Orbit]

I don't have doubts that Manta is alright device, but maybe there are other reasons why it is not sold widely. It's been stated it is "multi tone" device, but we don't see that on offered video clips. Additional question would be ground exclusion capability?
According to video presentations we see only situation where known target is put on known spot and that's not real, not showing us detector's behavior in really real conditions, where we don't know exact position of targets. Further; what would be it's behavior on soil if it was swept randomly over more or less mineralized soil (sand)? Etc,etc. Lot of question and assumptions; yet so few answers.

[ivconic]

@daverave
"..which is made partly of iron which will of course give good depth because of iron content..."
You are mistaken, two euro does not have iron in it.
2 euro composition
Outer segment: nickel - brass
Inner segment: nickel - copper .

But it seems an interesting detector.

@ivconic
I think you are right, investors' money is often the problem.
And if there are posted on youtube videos of your idea or product, most manufacturers of metal detectors usually have no more interest to buy your product / idea.
(Usually it is rabbit or bushrabbit!!)?

Yes. It is art of it's own to anticipate market flows. To place new product on market will need serious strategy.
Whole teams of experts are involved on that job, in big companies.
It is not enough only to have good product. It was in the past, now is not.
Now 80% of success goes to proper strategy and marketing.
I guess Manta is project coming from enthusiasm and not from serious marketing intentions.
I respect such efforts.

[Nupi]

Yes. It is art of it's own to anticipate market flows. To place new product on market will need serious strategy.
Whole teams of experts are involved on that job, in big companies.
It is not enough only to have good product. It was in the past, now is not.
Now 80% of success goes to proper strategy and marketing.
I guess Manta is project coming from enthusiasm and not from serious marketing intentions.
I respect such efforts.

It's not just the money that can give problems but it is a lot of work and effort and knowledge to manufacture a product that it can go into production.
If you all the procedures want to control on your own, thats almost impossible.

Then you will certainly crazy if you're already.

From legislation to product analysis from tax laws to business analysis from test tools to business plan, .................................................. ............risk analysis, product design, warranty conditions, safety regulations,...................................... ........................................ quality management, web desing, insurance policies, extensive testing, ............................................produc t comparison, product videos, public relations strategy, quality engineering, .....................................sustainabilit y calculation, injection-molding molds, parts procurement and management..................and then you still find time to let your dog?

rotflI'm not crazy!!!

[ivconic]

When it comes to "mechanic" (everything which is NOT electronics on metal detector) than real "pain" begins!
Mold for enclosure, mold for battery compartment (or separate enclosure), mold for front panel, mold for coil, mold for coil cover, mold for stem parts... bending pipes for stem parts, painting, putting all together...
Than; cardboard packaging, labeling, manuals, branding...
Production of precision molds is the most expensive, quality plastic syringe&squirts, finalization, matching, fitting... pain grows more and more, so as expenses!
And before all; you must have good product which many people will want to buy.
It is a process. Long and tough. But once it is completed and runs; than it returns all the investments... in case it was managed by proper planing and marketing.
And than when you think you are ready; there comes the state with its laws and regulations, quality controls, product categorization and taxes taxes taxes!!!
I guess that's why the bright future might be in niche business, "under the table", semi-legally, finding "holes" and passing through.
That's the only way for us the "small" ones.
Would be interesting to make several random tests on Manta. I guess sooner or later someone will bring it on table here.

[Nupi]

To be more serious.

As they say in the business, X marks the spot.
Another big problem is the final price of the detector.
If you let manufacture small numbers of parts they are very expensive and it is very difficult to compete with the large numbers that make the "big" detector manufacturers.
Do you want to make large numbers so that the cost price drops than you need more money and as we said before, this is a big problem, so accumulate problems with problems.
It is a visual circle of issues.
If you see some prices of metal detectors, you can do only if you make huge numbers in low-wage countries.
Want you make in that low-wage countries your product then you need knowledge and contacts which we do not have the most amateurs.
The question is whether you want to produce in those countries!!
The only way seems to me in order to be competitive is to make a high quality product that is really better than the competition but with a higher price or the other way, as you say yourself
"under the table", semi-legally, finding "holes" and passing through.

With the many causes we have described, show that there are several causes why may be we hear not much of the Manta.
About the videos:
The general tests that you see on youtube I find highly inadequate.
Apart from the many tricks that can be seen in many videos.
Despite everything, it seems an interesting detector and would like to see fair and good videos.

[ivconic]

To be more serious.

As they say in the business, X marks the spot.
Another big problem is the final price of the detector.
If you let manufacture small numbers of parts they are very expensive and it is very difficult to compete with the large numbers that make the "big" detector manufacturers.
Do you want to make large numbers so that the cost price drops than you need more money and as we said before, this is a big problem, so accumulate problems with problems.
It is a visual circle of issues.
If you see some prices of metal detectors, you can do only if you make huge numbers in low-wage countries.
Want you make in that low-wage countries your product then you need knowledge and contacts which we do not have the most amateurs.
The question is whether you want to produce in those countries!!
The only way seems to me in order to be competitive is to make a high quality product that is really better than the competition but with a higher price or the other way, as you say yourself
"under the table", semi-legally, finding "holes" and passing through.

With the many causes we have described, show that there are several causes why may be we hear not much of the Manta.
About the videos:
The general tests that you see on youtube I find highly inadequate.
Apart from the many tricks that can be seen in many videos.
Despite everything, it seems an interesting detector and would like to see fair and good videos.

Lot of true points.
"...really better than the competition but with a higher price..."
That's one option. Another option is to make good product and form acceptable price for wider markets and sell larger quantities.
It's matter of choice.
"...Apart from the many tricks..."
That's the "marketing" on lowest level.
In most of the cases we don't see drawbacks but only good side of presented product.
In the past i had splendid idea but never really tried to present it in public.
Since the Geotech is most probably one of the few top places on the Internet for these subjects; i had idea to suggest the formation of expert group for testing and control of metal detectors.
Such group will be official and will perform uniform, standardized and transparent series of testings.
Even contracts and agreements may be signed between group and manufacturers.
Group will perform all the testings, comparisons, checks and will write reviews. Similarly done as in other industries. And finally people world wide will have completely independent and reliable references.
It is possible to start this here. In time it can be taken more seriously. Members of such group must be chosen objectively and democratically by several criteria.
But that's quite another story... let's not spoil this topic and go too much off.
Manta is interesting indeed. I would like to see more videos of it.