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  • Some Questions for the Electronics Gurus

    Hey everyone,

    First off, I am new here and new to this, I have spent a month reading and going over more in this forum then I have anything else in years. I am what you would consider a kindergardener when it comes to electronics BUT, I do have some basics in it as I have built and use my own basic circuits with Opto's and Picaxe microcontrollers to build my own trail cameras.


    About me:
    No college, just been a tradesman/craftsman my whole life. Total outdoor nut, love to hunt, fish, camp and metal detect along with dredging and mining on a very small one man scale. At age 40 or so decided I needed to learn some things other than steel and fabrication and started with the trail cams, now at almost 50 I find a new interest .



    Well, I ended up here and so far I am completely fascinated with the level of inteligence of some of you guys. I had never thought of building my own metal detector until I found this site and now, it is on and crackin. When I get on a mission, I will not stop until I accomplish what I'm trying to do, the only thing that holds me back at times is the smart end of the stick, I'm terrible with math but love working with my hands, I forget and get frustrated but enjoy the drive it takes to finish what I start even if it takes me years..



    So with that being said, here are some bottom barrel questions that I'm sure some of you will snicker at or have answered many times, but will understand because at one time or another, you may have had the same questions you needed answered:



    1) With a metal detector, how many basic parts are their to the circuit excluding the coil ?, I'll use the surf pi pro as example, I know there is an audio circuit, voltage circuit and believe there is 2 other main parts but dont know what they are referred to as here. I made a small image map based on my own thinking since my trail cams have only 2 main parts and when put together make the complete circuit.


    2) Can a decent MD be made using a picaxe micro controller? I have and use picaxe 08m and 18x for my little cam projects, it was the easiest and quickest programming I could learn straight from their manuals and starter kits (along with plenty of help from friends), I tried pic basic but just wasnt catching on as fast as I would have liked.



    3) Does the book that the moderators/owners have/sell cover most of what I am asking? Yes, i will get it when I have the spare cash on hand, for right now I just want to keep moving forward with my learning curve at a nice slow pace.


    4) Out of all of the available kits/MD's in here, leaving basic to the wind, which is the BEST period? I know thats a double ended question because you'll want to know what its main purpose will be for and what, how and where it will be used. Answer: for gold nuggets, coins, Nor cals hot ground and hot rocks, some beach detecting, must be sensitive to small stuff but be able to delve to the deep for strong boxes of old from stage coaches long gone. Will be used in the flats, sands and mountains of nevada at times also so it may be hot and sunny in most of my areas most of the time.



    I have a surf pi pro (J. Ownes board), it works but has some issues that I believe are fairly basic but I need to understand more of whats going on under the hood so to speak so I can learn to figure it out on my own so I can build some more of these. I got it based on understanding it would be a good basic detector for what I do, but with the many that are here and all of the different uses, one of these must be a good do all unit with excellent ability for most detecting uses.


    Well, I hope I didnt bore you and hope also that you understand my questions, everyone started somewhere as I am starting here in 2014, I know some of you have been doing this for most of your lives and it is probably more like second nature to you, so please bare with me, I will progress and learn more by doing and seeing then I will by sitting in the back of class.




    Thanks all and have a great day ...
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Hello and welcome. Most folks here followed similar paths to find this place.

    Well the are 2 basic kinds of Metal Detectors - VLF and PI. You Surf PI is a PI of course.
    I found this handy diagram in the Hammerhead documentation;
    Click image for larger version

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    Hammerhead is one of Carl's designs. His book will be a big help as it covers just about
    anything you need to know about metal detectors. I'm still saving for my copy too (as
    I tend to buy more parts instead).

    Looking at the drawing you see the basic PI flow chart. A TX pulse energizes the coil,
    after the TX pulse shuts off we look for a signal at a specific time, the threshold ignores
    noise and a good signal causes an audio output.

    Your picaxe would be good for generating the timing for your Surf Pi if you want to do a
    little experimenting. Have a look at the HH2 (HamerHead2) threads to see how that might
    be done.

    Naming the best of anything is a can of worms. I find a good coil can make most MD's the best.
    I don't think any one is the best. Pi's tend to go deeper but don't discriminate well. Higher frequencies
    find small stuff easier so the better commercial MD's tend to use multiple frequencies. Most home made
    ones are single frequency. Microprocessors can dig info out of tiny signals and do "magic" but tend to
    be a bit more difficult to develop...

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Silver Dollar,


      Thank you for the relpy and the HH flow chart image, that was exactly what I was after. It gives a better picture of the basic circuits
      that will need to be put together, much appreciated. I'm not up on terminolgy so was not sure what you would call some of the other portions,
      that flow chart tells all.


      I'll take a look at the HH thread too and see what I can pick out of it..


      I kind of assumed using the word "Best" was probably not the "best" way to ask about the different models/kits that can be built and have
      learned over the last few weeks after making a few coils myself, it is obvious to me now, if the coil isnt right the detector isnt right, so you are
      absolutely right on the money with that.


      Figuring, after lookin at a couple of the other threads, I assumed the picaxe may work, just wasnt sure if it had enough capability to cover all
      bases, but I believe it surely may and with your answer and recommendation I will search further into it and see what I can do with my little quest..


      Still have plenty of learning and reading to do and this all has really peaked my interest, electronics always has, just never had the time in my youth
      to do anything about it, was always to busy workin.


      Maybe if some others are interested and we all have the time at the same time, we could maybe start a thread on the topic of a BS PI (basic) using
      a picaxe controller.

      Not sure how many others know the picaxe program but after seeing quite a few wishing they had learned programming, it is one of the easiest and
      simplest to learn and is really cheap to get started with.


      Anyways, Thank you again for the reply, that answered alot of what I needed to know and its much appreciated.
      Geo

      p.s. Just wanted to say thank you to Carl and all others for contributing to and building this into such a great forum.

      Comment


      • #4
        BS PI is a great name! I have a project called Cow PI where I'm trying to add a micro onto the HammerHead.
        I'm using Great Cow Basic so - "Cow PI".

        To make the timing pulses most anything will work. If you want to try sampling the signal you would need
        some optimizing. If you let the swichers sample for you the timing is much less but if you want to sample the
        whole waveform you need some firepower.

        The main problem for me is the powerful chips generally want to be programmed in "C". I prefer Basic or even
        machine code though probably should learn "C" for portability. Great Cow Basic can program PIC's or AVR parts
        and it outputs machine code that can be further optimized so it works for me for now.

        There's a lot of info on this site. I went through it by being interested in one project and reading all the way
        through it. For VLF info I'd recommend reading the Tesoro Golden Sabre thread. A lot of ground was covered in that thread.

        The TGSL 101 write up explains the whole schematic. It can be found here;
        http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...mplete-Details


        You can buy kits to build a few different models on Silverdog's site. I haven't found many other places to buy
        them...

        http://www.silverdog.co.uk/shop/inde...tegory&path=36

        He's in the UK but ships all over. It's a good place to start. He also sells bare boards if you want to assemble the
        parts yourself. I got 2 boards and the major parts for short money...

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't know if you saw the Hammerhead article either it's here;
          http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...head/index.dat

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by geoscash1 View Post
            3) Does the book that the moderators/owners have/sell cover most of what I am asking?
            The simple answer is "yes".

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Silver Dollar, I'll check out the Cow PI and read some more on the HH designs

              And thank you Qiaozhi, I was hoping it had that kind of info, so I'll pick it up as soon as I can..

              Comment

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