DETPIC 03

[Willy Bayot]

Re: DETPIC 03 discrimination test results

Thanks Pedro, it is very nice of you.
Do not worry for us, there are at least two reasons why there is no problem with publishing this data.
1. When we started this project one year ago, everybody knwledgeable in that domain told us that we were starting a 'mission impossible'. Now that we have proven that it was really possible, other persons who would want to folllow our tracks would indeed have the small advantage to KNOW in advance that it is possible but that's all. It would still take them several months to get to the point where we are standing now. In the mean time, we shall keep our advance of that number of months. The best protection for research projects is not so much the secret but the attack and the speed of continous improvements. (The motto says: do not stay too long at the same place)
2. These are only RESULTS of complex pattern matching algorithms and filtering which required us a period of one year to discover and set it up to get the above results consistently. We are obviously not ready to publish these algorithms to the public domain for free.

Willy

[Cserny Zsolt]

Re: DETPIC 03 discrimination test results

The vertical axis show the conductance of the items? Where would located the silver items?

[Willy Bayot]

Re: DETPIC 03 discrimination test results

Yes, that's about right. Depending upon the type of silver alloy, it would be located somewhere between gold and brass.

Willy

[Cserny Zsolt]

Re: DETPIC 03 discrimination test results

In the far future I plan a similar project, (desktop model only) but unfortunately I have not too much electronic experiment. I thinking about the ferrous discrimination (Ive found too many ferrous trash already)
What would happen with the decay curve compared on different material when I repeat the pulse (for example: [50us on]---[1 us off]---[50us on]----[measure].)
Another variation is the reverse pulse just before the normal pulse. Sean Goddard write about it:
http://www.thunting.com/cgi-bin/geotech/forum/view.cgi?action=message&forum=tech&message=3674

[Willy Bayot]

Re: DETPIC 03 discrimination test results

We use several consecutive pulses for the whole process, even for the general search mode, in order to reduce the random noise and improve the resolution of our measures.
However, although we knew about those tricks, we never tried them as we were sufficiently busy thoroughly testing our own design ideas.

Why do you say that you would only plan such a project 'in the far future'?
If you need some help later on the electronic domain, we could probably help you with our kit. You would just build the electronic part of our kit according to our (very simple) electronic circuit diagram and then, freely experiment with it if you are good at PIC programming.
Willy

[Cserny Zsolt]

Re: DETPIC 03 discrimination test results

Welcome,

Thank You for your kind offer. I have ideas, and I will do it at first. (Your idea is similar to mine, but you project seems more professional than mine) If you see the point, you should post your schematics on the list.

Zsolt

[usefi]

Re: DETPIC 03

dear sir:
can any one give me full schematic and hex file for detpic 03.
very thanks.

[Unregistered]

Please send me schematic of your detector detpic 03.
thanks.
[email protected]

[furious Unregistered]

I red all the posts here and i expected for such posts. OMG people a project like this one takes maybe 3 years to build. Do you really
think it will be free to build? Stop asking silly questions. Willy said when the project is all done it will be available for all to build. I expect the price will be very very good and they will sell kits with Pcb and PIC. IF you want to build it like me be patience аnd prepare some green sheets )

[Muntari]

Willy's email address

Hi Willy,
Brian King here.
(Muntari)
I have lost your email address and would like to send some info as I said I would.

I will share this info with the forum once I iron out a few issues but for now would just like to have you take a peek.
Please respond with email when you have a chance.
Thanks

Regards

Muntari (Brian King)

[ram]

a good detector...could you modify this detector for deeper ground penetration? lets say,..40ft below the ground or more with great accuracy.for use in the philippines.big thanks..

[miqui]

Re: DETPIC 03 discrimination test results

Thanks Pedro, it is very nice of you.
Do not worry for us, there are at least two reasons why there is no problem with publishing this data.
1. When we started this project one year ago, everybody knwledgeable in that domain told us that we were starting a 'mission impossible'. Now that we have proven that it was really possible, other persons who would want to folllow our tracks would indeed have the small advantage to KNOW in advance that it is possible but that's all. It would still take them several months to get to the point where we are standing now. In the mean time, we shall keep our advance of that number of months. The best protection for research projects is not so much the secret but the attack and the speed of continous improvements. (The motto says: do not stay too long at the same place)
2. These are only RESULTS of complex pattern matching algorithms and filtering which required us a period of one year to discover and set it up to get the above results consistently. We are obviously not ready to publish these algorithms to the public domain for free.

Willy

hi willy,

what happened with your project? did you finish it?
how is working?if you have any info about it, let me know.
my e-mail address is [email protected].
I would like to know the progress of your project.

thanks, miqui

[rumensat]

i think they can not sell this bicose it is under US patent restricted
owner is company MINELAB
patent No US5506506S5506506

[pml]

I think such accurate discrimination is difficult. When a lot of field test data comes in then it should show a lot of issues. He mentions "The clusters of a gold coin and that of a Gold ring are rather separated partly for their different shape but also maybe for their alloy mix, this is to be checked in more details" I think that was just the beginning of their surprise how exact metal types can drastically vary from just a change in size and shape.

I think analyzing just the decay signal is not enough. A good start is analyzing the entire full signal. Magnetic material discrimination is really easy to discriminate. One hope for conductive magnetic iron discrimination is detecting magnetic saturation caused by eddy currents. When saturation is reach by eddy currents then the magnetic permeability drastically decreases. This is not full proof since it could simply be a nugget sitting on top of magnetic material. I guess it's the operators choice. As Dave said, if you're in bad ground where there's iron every foot then perhaps it's better to save time by discriminating, but you take the chance of missing real finds.

Paul

[Unregistered]

I sure would like to see this machine in action....

Based on the posts made by DETPIC 03, his detector is not making simple discriminations as other PI machines do. It appears he is measuring the second and possibly third derivative of the signal sensed. It seems he is using some very advanced algorithms to discrimainate compared to conventional methods. After reading all his posts, I can't find anywhere he says he did not look at the entire signal.

Possibly the inventor of this machine is not planning to tell every detail of how his discrimination works. Personally, I wouldn't blame him. The hard part of his work lies in the research of countless hours of trial and error to find the best algorithms for metal discrimination. Why would he feel it is in his interest to publish every detail of the results he discovered? (oops, "they" discovered).

Anyway... It seems to me that perhaps we will know best how well this machine works by observing the finished product working rather than speculating that the inventors did not do diligent enough work in covering all the possibilities of multiple target discrimination. .... Just my opinion.