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  • Problems over 1265,need urgent help !



    Need tips and help !
    A friend brought me some "burned" Fisher 1265. Some extended batt.pack was
    plugged with oposite polarities. MPSU51 died, also LM339 on the output.
    I replaced them and for the "first look" everything works fine.......but..
    1265 is acting normal as you switch it on for a minute or two,it
    detects items good and act quite usual.After 2-3 minutes(sometimes less), the
    sound starts to decay and finally pass out.No sound at all! At that exact
    moment when trying to test batt. with pushing that button, the sound appears
    loud and clear, like everyhing is normal.When releasing button, again no sound,
    no detecting.After that, when switch device off and wait a minute, and than switch
    it on again, everything acts normal again! No matter how many times i repeat that
    procedure,always acts the same. Present voltage is +6.80V and -3.85V, with 12V batt.
    I checked major number of components, finds nothing unusual.When unsolder lm336(zener)
    the voltages leveled at +/- 6.7 V till 7V aprox.LM336 is o.k. on testing.When i put
    another zener 2.5V or 2.7V instead LM336, again i have the same results like with
    LM336. I soldered again almost all pads, just in case of "cold soldering".I left it
    for 2-3 hours and when switch it on again , it works a much longer, almost 20-30 minutes
    good.I gave it to a friend to test it(since he using that 1265 for over the 10 years and
    he knows much better it's behavior). He was almost satisfied with it for the first hour or
    two, but later he noticed that there is no way to adjust it so that device should work with
    some minor background sound(he told me that is the best way to adjust 1265 on higher sensitivity
    for prospecting coins).So no background sound,and no way to obtain it.He explain me that
    on coin prospectin he is using both disc.-s, left one is adjusted on "2" and right one
    on "4". "Sens" is highest. In that position you must hear a noticeable background tone,when
    detect iron, 1265 is "clicking" over that tone, but when detecting a coin, 1265 is producing
    loud and sharp tone. At the moment, device is not producing background tone and it is a bit
    less sensitive, also my friend would like to return original behavior of the 1265.
    Since I am not using 1265 or similar i am not very familliar with it. I checked and tried to
    repair it but right now i do not have any idea more! Any body can help me ?
    KT315,GEO,QUIAOZHI,CARL,MICHAEL,JPLAYER and others H E L P !!!
    best regards
    ivconic
    One more thing!
    Friend noticed too,that SENS button appear's like no effect at all when random switching on and
    test it by turning it high or low.....!? Ts,ts,ts....
    1265 is quite usable device on the field. I noticed many times, my friend is "dumping" pockets
    with old Roman coins, detected with it.Also heard that 1266 has simillar results.Schematics are
    almost the same. But when using bigger spider coil with 1266 it is a bit harder to pinpoint
    exact position of a coin(which is o.k. by me, since it is larger coil).
    So at the end, again, need urgent help about 1265.Any tip?

  • #2
    Problems over 1265,need urgent help !

    Apart from the SENS button, this problem sounds like it's heat related. After you use the machine for a few minutes it starts to fail. If you switch off for a long time it works for longer.
    Perhaps you could try using some freezer spray on some of the components to see if it starts working again without switching off. This will identify the source of the problem. Alternatively you could also try heating selected components when it is working in order to make it go wrong. This is a little more difficult than using freezer.
    If the freezer doesn't work, then we'll need to put our heads together and think again

    Good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well....


      Thanks friend...
      But i have doubt about it, cose device was opened on the table for 2-3 hours and switched on....i put mu finger over almost all components during that time...not even warm...everything looks perfect when we talking about heating...i was doubted on some capacitors...checked them and they are well too. Not all of them i've checked,only "involved" one's......Still i am not sure...
      "Sense" butt. sometimes works, sometimes not - not dependable on "switched on" time !? Very strange behavior , i have to admit that!
      Best regards to you....thak's anyway!

      Comment


      • #4
        more

        :confused:


        I would like to extend my reply.
        I do know that "finger" method is not quite accurate on heating problems.
        You have very RIGHT when advising "freezer", but right now i do not have
        it at lab. By other hand, to heat some components more, i can find problem
        easy or provoke some more problems too!That's why i do use "good old finger"
        method when i fell desperate like now. This 1265 confuses me much! I was
        thinking to use a 5kg hammer and solve the problem at once, but it is not
        my device so i give up....at least for now!
        I started to think from the begining of the problem......for example, if i
        confused polarities of the batt. what's gonna happen? First MPSU51 will blow
        (like it did),second i have doubt about that second LM339,is it "alive"
        still or it died.It was dead,so i replaced it. Next was power regulator, some
        SV... blah,blah,blah, adjustable regulator.If i was designed 1265, i would
        put a simple 7808 instead of it.Next,a bunch of 2N...blah transistors in conjuction
        with regulator too! To complicated for me. But it seems a very good solution
        right now, cose that part survived at the end! Tribute to Fisher!
        Next step was MPSA13 at the output.It blowed many times in my designs,but here
        in 1265, it is alive and working, after all! I guess, MPSU51 protected it.
        ABout voltages i feel a little bit confused! I was thinking that there should be
        exact same values on both sides of symetrical output respecting the ground from
        the first LM339, but it is not.It is +6,xx and -3,xx volts.I am not sure that
        it should be just like that, but i do remember when assembling some Tesoro
        power supply, i've got simillar values too.I wonder if anybody can justify on
        that values for 1265.
        Come to think again on that MPSA13 .......Once,i put BC517 instead MPSA13 in some
        White's Classic III and it worked fine in a "Bleep" mode, but when holding
        pinpoint switch more than 20-30 seconds that BC517 blows! In pinpointing mode
        instead "bleep" tone it has continous "beeeeeeeeeeep" with amplitude variations.
        So MPSA13 was a next to examine with "finger" method.But it keeps "cool" even
        after 2-3 minutes of "beeeeep"-ing in 1265(i was pushed batt.check button all the
        time, while "fingering" it).Some bully that MPSA13, huh!
        Next was checking some very "involved" capacitiors around.All of them were good.
        Even a few of tantal's were very good too!
        At the end i left without solution! I am waiting someone to help me.....
        And the 5kg hammer is waiting too!
        regards!

        Comment


        • #5
          This is just an idea, maybe worth checking: It may be a battery problem. You can rule battery out by replacing the batteries with others that you know are good. if you have the same problem, then you will know it is not the batteries.

          There are occasions when a weak set of batteries can cause similar problems to what you see. If the batteries were connected reverse and fried the ics, then maybe the batteries were acting like a high-power heater supply. it is possible some damage was done to the batteries as well as the detector. When some kinds of batteries batteries become weak, they will develop higher than usual internal resistance. Sometimes they have damage to the internal chemistry too because of overheating. They may be able to carry a moderate load ok, but when you perform the battery test, It usuallly involves drawing a high current from the battery to watch what happens to the voltage. Some types of batteries will lose voltage during a battery test, then stay at a low voltage even after battery test is done, until you remove all load. Then they recover enough to power a moderate load after resting with no load for awhile.

          It sounds like it is possible the high load from battery test might be causing weak batteries to drop to unacceptable voltage and current capacity. Maybe worth a check with substitute power supply that is known to be good.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ivconic


            And the 5kg hammer is waiting too!
            regards!
            Hi Ivconic. I have not the schematic of 1265 so i cant help you. Do you know if it is the same with 1266x?
            I believe that the 5Kgr hammer is the best way. Dont afraid. Do it. Its a good experience.

            Have a nice Day.

            Comment


            • #7
              Even if this is a heat-related problem, it does not mean that you will feel any heat with your finger.
              I would still try the freezer before giving it the hammer test.
              Your friend may not be too happy!

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeahhhh!!!


                I was so confused and forget to think analytical...JPLAYER you might be very right!!!
                I tested it with substitute power supply, and it worked overtime with no problems! Once
                i switched on batteries it start to "behave" again! When testing batt. with DVM, voltage
                is right, it must be the current capacity problem. That battery adventured deep shock,i guess.
                It has to be replaced.Thank's for idea!
                Geo, i do have both schematics, 1265 and 1266.You can find them on this forum.
                Look almost the same,except some diff. in the power regulator and a few minor changes else.
                I do have some previously experience with hammer,trust me - it is relaxation when used from
                time to time!
                But this time Jplayer saved that 1265.
                "Even if this is a heat-related problem, it does not mean that you will feel any heat with your
                finger". Quiaozhi, i can do nothing else but agree with you!
                Friends thank YOU very much!
                Best regards!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Change all the electrolytics on power busses as they will be damaged.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ivconic

                    I do have some previously experience with hammer,trust me - it is relaxation when used from
                    time to time!
                    Best regards!
                    I agree
                    Have a nice day

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE]I was so confused and forget to think analytical...JPLAYER you might be very right!!!
                      I tested it with substitute power supply, and it worked overtime with no problems! Once
                      i switched on batteries it start to "behave" again! [\QUOTE]

                      Wow! This is what this forum is about everyone helping each other.
                      Glad to hear the problem is fixed. Your friend must be very happy you didn't need the hammer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Cool


                        Thank u unregistered, but none of them was damaged! Whole part survive and works quite well. But thank's anyway.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ...

                          I guess it vas very fast action.When realizing what mistake he done, my friend fast unpluged reversed batt. MPSU51 died, LM339 also, but caps survived!
                          ......

                          Comment

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