Who Tesoro

[ivconic]

Thanks...


Thank's a lot Geo!
It would be nice if you check this .pcb. I spent some time drawing it and after that many times tried to find error,but there is phenomena of non-recognizig if you made habit to your mind on something....Many times i been trough that!? Somebody else very easy find obvious mistakes on my designs, but me - not, even after 20-30 checks!So it is very possible that there are some mistakes on it, but for now, i am "blind" on them!? Anyway, when you check it,please post here any notes...


Mykonos...Creta...Rhodos..."greek side of my mind...", i am so missing Greece, i would like to be there again.....Most beautifull place on earth!
But these days,money is a problem, also many problems on providing visas for
Greece....
regards

[Carl-NC]

Carl: I can not find TLC2262 and MC33178. What common IC may i put for them. I stay at a small town with 40000 population and i can not find all the components. Golden Sabre has not TLC2262 and MC33178 so i have not problem with ic's. If you have any idea about replacing them i wait for your news.

The 2262 is just a dual CMOS opamp. I don't think noise, offset, or bandwidth are critical in this application. So use any dual CMOS opamp, or 2 singles. You could probably use a TL071/072/081/082 JFET opamp... they are very easy to find.

The 33178 is a dual opamp with low noise and 5MHz gain-bandwidth.... the GBW is probably necessary in this case, so just find an opamp with a few MHz GBW product. The NE5532/34 comes to mind, and the CA3130/40.

- Carl

[Geo]

Hi.
"Ivconic". I am back and maybe this week to check your pcb. Now about money and visas.. what to do. The life is difficult. We say that the first 100 year are difficult. After 100 years all are ok (ha..ha maybe for the other).

"Carl" Thanks for ic's. Maybe to try with TL081 and NE5534.
Bye. I will go for sleep. The time is 1:35 after midnight.

[ivconic]

Welcome Geo!


Welcome Geo!
I would say first $1 000 000 is difficult to earn, than evrything after is coming very easy! Arrest first, than take this .pcb and do the work. I 'll be waiting for your opinion...
regards

[ivconic]

ha,ha,ha....


Take a rest first....not "arrest" !!!!! Ha,ha,ha....this is not my day today! I better go "arrest" in bed...Good night

[Geo]

:confused: :confused: :confused:
I finished Tesoro Diablo Gold Demon today.It failed to work.Checked again and again all.
.
I have a few of them,switched them around and always the same story!? 2907 output refuse
to oscillate. I put 330nF parallel to TX coil.When remove that condenser, 2907 start to
oscillate at 80kHz with drifts,but when adjusting with trimm. 2.5 K i can lower it even
to 8-9kHz also with drifts from time to time.

Hi Ivconic. As i see at your schematic maybe there is a mistake . You must connect a capacitor 15..68 nf between collector and emitter of 2n 2907.
Connect it and tell me about results.
I wait.
Good luck .

[ivconic]

huh!!!


Hi Geo !
No,it is not that...I found one mistake.Instead 14.7k resistor on 2. and 6. pin of 7555 i put
24.7K !? On the posted .pcb here,you may see right value, but during assemblage i put wrong by
mistake,i guess i was too tired...Now. When adjusting with that var 2.5K on base of 2907 it is
starting to oscillate! There is 330nF parallel to coil,so i guess no need for c between C and E
of 2907.I changed 330nF to 47nF. With var 2.5K (other one) on 2. and 6. pin of 7555 i can adjust
freq from 17,77 kHz to 20,95kHz now...But this time no drifts at all.Very stabile.
Since i do not have any datas on proper coil i am using some scrap coil, just for testing...
But it is still not working!? When ON,i can hear sound for 5-6 seconds,than decay and stop.2907
is working properly all the time.Any adjustment with pots. has no effect.When pushing RETUNE
knob,after 2 sec. sound starts and last forever...until switched OFF.When put some metal around
coil - no detection, no changes at all, wheter sound is on or off.
Just to help more, today i finished Bandido(again), but this time i used Gary's one sided pcb.
An you know what !? It is working! I tested it with the same scrap coil and detection is poor,
of course.Tomorrow i'll make proper coil (Mike's),although i do not know wire gauge,do you know?
Anyway,that Bandido now is helping me to understand how Tesoro's are working,so i can compare
Demon behavior with it,since there are simillar stages(for example sound output etc...)First
thing i noticed on both is that output transistors should not be 2N2222 and 2N2907 pair but
more like BC557 and BC547,cose on both machines first pair cause huge power consumption and
22 ohm resistor becames very hot in first 3-4 seconds!With second pair it works much calmer...and
sound is good as well....When changed those transistors on Demon,overall power consumption is not
110mA any more but 85mA....still very high!
Now, since Demon is not detecting,only "beeep-ing", i decided to experiment more.
Here is some notes:
With LM392 installed:
- when switched ON and when sound is ON(5-6 seconds)p.consumption is 85mA !!
-after 5-6 seconds when no sound p.consumption is lower to 44mA !!
Without LM392:
- when switched ON and when sound is ON(5-6 seconds)p.consumption is 46mA !!
-after 5-6 seconds when no sound p.consumption is lower to 10mA !!
Instead LM392 i put LM393:
- when switched ON and when sound is ON(5-6 seconds)p.consumption is 72mA !!
-after 5-6 seconds when no sound p.consumption is lower to 36mA !!
Any other op.-amp when taking out of socket - p.consumption lower down for 5mA !!!???
So,i guess problem should be somewhere around LM392,but not sure...I do have 5-6 pcs.of it,
so there is no chance that i am using bad one.
One more thing.Cose could not have LS204 amd 27M2 i am using TLC272,also checked LF353,
TL062 and simillar, no changes at all, always the same!?
Also in all combinations the same behavior when "retuning"...
Also noticed there is not same level of sound in Bandido and Demon,although they have the
same output,Demon's output much louder than Bandido's....But on Demon i do have equal
+5v and -5v symetrical, on Bandido can't gain it, i have +5V and -0.7V !!??? At least it
shoul be -1.85V (i saw in some of posts here), so even Bandido is working i am affraid when
making proper coil i am not gonna have good results at all.Right now with that scrap coil,
Bandido detect 1l paint can on 10cm.....poor(even for the scrap coil)!
Right now i am all mess up! Confused! Many posts about Bandido,everybody claims a slice
different claims about it!? Is it so hard to gain closer symetricals, at least +5V and -3V?
From the other side this Demon is quite another story!
I might made some other mistake?Who knows?
Come to think to send all tesoro's to hell! I made so far many detectors,some of them much
more complicated than those tesoro's,much,much more...!??? And always succeed! All of mine
"home mades" are now workable and good.....What to say?
Spite,malice or something else, push me to finish this up, proper, so i'll continue few more
days to bug myself with it. If no succes than, i'll spit on it and "pitch" it in the trash!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
In the meantime, if you (or anybody else) have some note or hint, post here.....many thanks in
advance....
regards Geo

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Geo !
No,it is not that...I found one mistake.Instead 14.7k resistor on 2. and 6. pin of 7555 i put
24.7K !? On the posted .pcb here,you may see right value, but during assemblage i put wrong by
mistake,i guess i was too tired...Now. When adjusting with that var 2.5K on base of 2907 it is
starting to oscillate! There is 330nF parallel to coil,so i guess no need for c between C and E
of 2907.I changed 330nF to 47nF. With var 2.5K (other one) on 2. and 6. pin of 7555 i can adjust
freq from 17,77 kHz to 20,95kHz now...But this time no drifts at all.Very stabile.
Since i do not have any datas on proper coil i am using some scrap coil, just for testing...
But it is still not working!? When ON,i can hear sound for 5-6 seconds,than decay and stop.2907
is working properly all the time.Any adjustment with pots. has no effect.When pushing RETUNE
knob,after 2 sec. sound starts and last forever...until switched OFF.When put some metal around
coil - no detection, no changes at all, wheter sound is on or off.
Just to help more, today i finished Bandido(again), but this time i used Gary's one sided pcb.
An you know what !? It is working! I tested it with the same scrap coil and detection is poor,
of course.Tomorrow i'll make proper coil (Mike's),although i do not know wire gauge,do you know?
Anyway,that Bandido now is helping me to understand how Tesoro's are working,so i can compare
Demon behavior with it,since there are simillar stages(for example sound output etc...)First
thing i noticed on both is that output transistors should not be 2N2222 and 2N2907 pair but
more like BC557 and BC547,cose on both machines first pair cause huge power consumption and
22 ohm resistor becames very hot in first 3-4 seconds!With second pair it works much calmer...and
sound is good as well....When changed those transistors on Demon,overall power consumption is not
110mA any more but 85mA....still very high!
Now, since Demon is not detecting,only "beeep-ing", i decided to experiment more.
Here is some notes:
With LM392 installed:
- when switched ON and when sound is ON(5-6 seconds)p.consumption is 85mA !!
-after 5-6 seconds when no sound p.consumption is lower to 44mA !!
Without LM392:
- when switched ON and when sound is ON(5-6 seconds)p.consumption is 46mA !!
-after 5-6 seconds when no sound p.consumption is lower to 10mA !!
Instead LM392 i put LM393:
- when switched ON and when sound is ON(5-6 seconds)p.consumption is 72mA !!
-after 5-6 seconds when no sound p.consumption is lower to 36mA !!
Any other op.-amp when taking out of socket - p.consumption lower down for 5mA !!!???
So,i guess problem should be somewhere around LM392,but not sure...I do have 5-6 pcs.of it,
so there is no chance that i am using bad one.
One more thing.Cose could not have LS204 amd 27M2 i am using TLC272,also checked LF353,
TL062 and simillar, no changes at all, always the same!?
Also in all combinations the same behavior when "retuning"...
Also noticed there is not same level of sound in Bandido and Demon,although they have the
same output,Demon's output much louder than Bandido's....But on Demon i do have equal
+5v and -5v symetrical, on Bandido can't gain it, i have +5V and -0.7V !!??? At least it
shoul be -1.85V (i saw in some of posts here), so even Bandido is working i am affraid when
making proper coil i am not gonna have good results at all.Right now with that scrap coil,
Bandido detect 1l paint can on 10cm.....poor(even for the scrap coil)!
Right now i am all mess up! Confused! Many posts about Bandido,everybody claims a slice
different claims about it!? Is it so hard to gain closer symetricals, at least +5V and -3V?
From the other side this Demon is quite another story!
I might made some other mistake?Who knows?
Come to think to send all tesoro's to hell! I made so far many detectors,some of them much
more complicated than those tesoro's,much,much more...!??? And always succeed! All of mine
"home mades" are now workable and good.....What to say?
Spite,malice or something else, push me to finish this up, proper, so i'll continue few more
days to bug myself with it. If no succes than, i'll spit on it and "pitch" it in the trash!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
In the meantime, if you (or anybody else) have some note or hint, post here.....many thanks in
advance....
regards Geo

Hi Ivconic,

If you give up, then don't bin it. Send it to me and I'll try to fix it for you. This would also be very interesting for me to examine this Bandido design.
No charge - of course.

[Geo]

Hi.
"Qiaozhi".. I believe that the joy is to do the manufacture to work. All other come halves. Thus I believe that Ivconic will not send to you the pcb for repair.

"Ivconic"... 1. Coils 0.5 mm is OK. At the Rx coil you may use 0.2 mm . There is not problem with the current or the Q.
2. -1.85v is not good voltage at Bandido. Read at forum. There ara a lot of solutions. When you will finish the Bandido i want to do an experiment for me. I want to try a TL071/072/081/082 at the position of TLC2262 (oh i don't looked if they are pin to pin compatible). If it is the same i will try the bandido.
3.. I believe that with normal coils the Bandido will work fine.
Good luck

[ivconic]

Sorry...


Sorry friend, i will not send you this just for one reason: i live in Serbia,
posting will cost me much more than a new detector!! If we were closer i'll
give it as a present, no chrages at all.....even buy you a pint of best beer!
................................................


Geo, since i couldnt find those TLC's and MC's....i put in all places TLC272, and all worked same as when after i checked TL062 and LF353....No changes
at all !!!???

For Bandido i made Mike's coil and it is not working at all!? I used his hints,
170 for RX, 20 for FB and 105 for TX on 20cm(tx) and 12cm(rx),gauge was
some 0.4 or 0.3mm.....
After that i made double DD, 25cm diamm, 0.5mm and both 50 windings...
It works but not good.Detect coin 1cm on 10cm distance,1l paint can ov
25cm.....
All metal mode and Disc working just fine,although in ALL mode is noticeable
less sensitive !!???Down for 30-40% !!!!????
In the past was vice-versa with Classic III, all mode worked excellent but
disc. mode worse....
In Bandido i also put TLC272, but after that i checked various opamps.
TLC272 showed the best results so far!
regards
:confused:

[Qiaozhi]

Sorry friend, i will not send you this just for one reason: i live in Serbia,
posting will cost me much more than a new detector!! If we were closer i'll
give it as a present, no chrages at all.....even buy you a pint of best beer!

Hi ivconic,

We are both now part of Europe, so there should be a standard price to send anywhere. I think it should not cost more than a pint of beer, and probably much less to send this small PCB to the UK.
Of course, you might get it working and want to keep it.

[ivconic]

Not yet....


Sorry,but not yet....
The rest of Europe still not want to accept us Serbs as europeans....
Damn politics....Even Greece,our best friends ever, do not want to let us in
Greece without visas....It is sad but true. But this is not subject for this forum.....I see a good man and friend in you and i would like to comply to
you, but still it would be wasteful for me to pack and send it abroad, since it is a very simple and cheap .pcb, as you can see on posted picture above...
I think you can do it much better than mine....and with more chances to work at the end....Anyway best regards to you!

[Qiaozhi]

Sorry,but not yet....
The rest of Europe still not want to accept us Serbs as europeans....
Damn politics....Even Greece,our best friends ever, do not want to let us in
Greece without visas....It is sad but true. But this is not subject for this forum.....I see a good man and friend in you and i would like to comply to
you, but still it would be wasteful for me to pack and send it abroad, since it is a very simple and cheap .pcb, as you can see on posted picture above...
I think you can do it much better than mine....and with more chances to work at the end....Anyway best regards to you!

Hi ivconic,

ok - I understand. Will maybe try to build something similar. More later.....