Cache Test

[Jim]

won't be dissolved? why not?
I have wrote this before and here repeat it:
gold easily is dissolved in Hydrochloric acid (HCl) especially in mix of HCl + HNo3(3/1).
there is a simple chemical theorem; when you dissolve a salt(e.g. NaCl) in water it produces an acid + base. when is NaCl this happens: NaCl + H2o gives HCl + NaoH. especially when be under pressure, slight heat and long time it will interact on gold and gives compounds such as; AuCl3[ gold(III)-chloride] or HAuCl4.3H2o (gold trichloride acid trihydrate) or for platinum; PtCl2 & PtCl4.
In nature may be happens such an action and interaction or little different that induces a kind of halo.
Can you definitely decline these with 100% certainty?

Jeepers…all of the gold coins and jewelry I have dug has always come out of the ground/water in pristine condition. I am probably one of the lucky ones, digging/diving in an acid-free area.

[Leto]

Au2O3

Gold doesn't oxidize at all.

Just to be correct: gold can oxidize too. Chemical formula is Au2O3 and is water-insoluble, heat-decomposable (at 350C), brownish-black powder; soluble in hydrochloric acid; used to gild, in medicine and porcelain, and for daguerreotypes. Also known as auric oxide; gold trioxide. It is usually done by reactive sputtering of pure gold in an oxygen plasma.

In nature gold does not oxidize very fast: native gold usually has a thin coat of iron oxide or silica that prevents it from amalgamating readily.

[Tinkerer]

Halo Effect on land

First, let me set the record straight, I did not mention gold, only silver and copper etc. The sampling of sea fans was only looking for silver, copper and iron. The results were unmistakable, like some samples had about 50 times more silver than average.

• Silver coins do dissolve, not to nothing, but into a mass of sulfide, chloride and oxides, a gray mass with no more metal. And it does that quite rapidly in oxygenated seawater, like when exposed in the surf. Ask any experienced shipwreck treasure hunter.
• Gold is indeed not much attacked by seawater. But make a simple test: cut open a nice sour apple. Place a highly polished piece of gold in it and let it sit for a few days. Then look at the gold, it is tarnished.
• Even better, there are many plants that contain cyanide. That really does a good job of breaking down the gold into its ions. Take Manioc for example, mash the root in water and leave it in the sun, better, leave your crown jewels in it till next day, but don’t blame me if they look like you know what after that.
• I don’t know offhand of any source of nitric acid, but I am sure it exists in nature. For a good source of hydrochloric acid, break up any old, encrusted iron object that spent a few hundred years in seawater. Just knock the crust off a cannon ball and leave it exposed to the air. Very soon you will see that it exudes little droplets of a yellow liquid. Taste them or test them, they are hydrochloric acid.

Now about the halo around silver and copper or other non noble metals, buried on land:

Lets start with the soil. When the agriculture engineer wants to take a soil sample, he mixes and sifts the soil many times to obtain a good average sample. He does that because he knows that the soil is very unequal and the top soil may be very different from the soil 24 inches down.
When he gets the results, he looks first at the PH, the indicator that tells him if the soil is sweet at the PH of 7 or if it is sour, with PH 6 and less, or if it is bitter or alkaline at a PH higher than 7. Then he looks at the content of Phosphor, Nitrogen, Potassium, Sulfur and a long list of other minerals. Another factor that is important to him is the amount of organic matter (see rotting Manioc, above)
Now, if you bury some silver coins in this great mixture of minerals and maybe aggressive organic compounds, what will happen?

As soon as some water with all kinds of acids and salts, from the surrounding soil gets to the coins, an electrolytic process starts (see electrolysis below). There is a wild orgy of ion exchange. The ion soup may flow on further, or it may dry. If it dries, the acids and salts get more concentrated and the action intensifies.
The surrounding soil is saturated with the results of the process, so much that one can often see the green copper oxides several inched from the object, with the naked eye. A “Halo”

Now, how is a metal detector supposed to “see” this ion saturated soil, if it is not even capable to “see” solid metal of grain size?

Here we come to the electrolysis.

Take out your old sulfided silver coin. Stick it into a plastic container and fill the container with water. Now connect a stainless steel plate to a wire, then stick the plate into the water.
Do the same with the coin. Do not let the coin touch the plate.
Now hook up the wires to a car battery.
Now look at the coin. It just sits there and nothing is happening. Plain water does not contain enough minerals (ions) to be a good conductor.
Now add a few spoons of baking soda, or salt or vinegar, or battery acid or whatever to the water. With the power on, it immediately starts bubbling.
As the current flows from the negative to the positive terminal, the ions go the opposite way. If you hooked the coin to the positive terminal and used sulfuric acid as electrolyte, your coin will dissolve completely and all you will have left is some black mud at the bottom of your container.

Now back to the detecting. We have seen that it does not take a lot to make a fairly good conductor out of plain water. Going back to our buried coins that have spread their ions several inches over many years, we see the possibility of a reasonable conductor with a volume of maybe a gallon or even more.
When we tickle that conductor with the powerful magnetic field of the detector it responds with a giggle (they call this eddy currents), much more then if it was just one small conductor. “The Halo Effect”

You don’t believe me? Well, stick your detector into the seawater and see how strong its response is. Not my fault if the detector is ruined because it was not waterproof.

Tinkerer

[Leto]

Oxidize this.

In nature gold does not oxidize very fast

With very fast I meant geological time - in terms of human counting of years or centuries the gold does not oxidize visibly.

Attached is picture of golden ring from grave 1400 years old (AD600).

[Esteban]

Also deppend of the gradation in k and type of terrain. I'm curious why sometimes coins 22 k was unearthed with a fine black patina. I found this coin cover with fine gold exactly in this condition. Found in old Brazilian occupation encampment (occupation was since 1869 to 1879). In origin this is a copper coin, but who plated this and why!!!

[Leto]

Copper Vs Iron

Attached are two photos.
Left is a fragment of a damaged bronze needle 2500 years old. You can clearly see what happened: Bronze patina (copper oxide+) completly transformed shiny bronze. Dark green patina is original surface of needle and the golden core is what remains of bronze. Such objects are very hard to detect even with lowest dead times - copper oxide is just too bad conductor.
Bronze can leave green stains if an object is lying on very poreous material as bone, leather... and usually can not be seen in surrounding earth (except as a thin layer around object), but as said - copper oxide is poor conductor and can not help with detection.

Right is the iron nail (medieval). The story here is different - the edge of dark core is original surface of the nail and the brown-yellow mantle around it is of course iron oxide. Iron oxide in high concentrations can be detected with metal detector - and here can be the cause of Fe objects having halo effect.

As other people experimenting with MD I noticed too how some items can be detected deeper in undisturbed ground than air but probably this is not because of leeching ions etc., but we should investigate how magnetic fields propagate throu undisturbed soil Vs air.... I bet there lies an answer to infamous halo effect.

[Carl-NC]

won't be dissolved? why not?
I have wrote this before and here repeat it:
gold easily is dissolved in Hydrochloric acid (HCl) especially in mix of HCl + HNo3(3/1).
there is a simple chemical theorem; when you dissolve a salt(e.g. NaCl) in water it produces an acid + base. when is NaCl this happens: NaCl + H2o gives HCl + NaoH. especially when be under pressure, slight heat and long time it will interact on gold and gives compounds such as; AuCl3[ gold(III)-chloride] or HAuCl4.3H2o (gold trichloride acid trihydrate) or for platinum; PtCl2 & PtCl4.
In nature may be happens such an action and interaction or little different that induces a kind of halo.
Can you definitely decline these with 100% certainty?

Just to be correct: gold can oxidize too. Chemical formula is Au2O3 and is water-insoluble, heat-decomposable (at 350C), brownish-black powder; soluble in hydrochloric acid; used to gild, in medicine and porcelain, and for daguerreotypes. Also known as auric oxide; gold trioxide. It is usually done by reactive sputtering of pure gold in an oxygen plasma.

In nature gold does not oxidize very fast: native gold usually has a thin coat of iron oxide or silica that prevents it from amalgamating readily.

I should clarify my statements... we are talking about gold treasure, i.e., coins, jewelry, etc., that has been recently lost. Recently meaning 100's of days to 100's of years. We are talking about average natural conditions. We are not talking about millions of years, high pressures, or boiling hot temperatures.

Yes, I know gold has an oxide. Yes, I know gold will dissolve in aqua regia. Yes, I know seawater has dissolved gold in it, on the order of 6 nanograms per liter. This did not come from sunken treasure. BTW, gold in seawater is not in ionic form.

I will consider scientific evidence and experiments that show buried or sunken gold produces ionic fields. I would not accept Mineoro's word on this, as some of the answers they've given me on other questions were completely bogus.

I will consider scientific evidence and experiments that show buried silver and copper produce ionic fields which enhance detection, resulting in the popular "halo" theory. Tinkerer gave a very interesting explanation, which deserves investigation. I have strong doubts that any such ions would have any measurable effect on a metal detector, but it's worth looking at.

And so I started this very experiment about 2 weeks ago.

- Carl

[Esteban]

From http://www.treasurelore.com/florida/detector_info.htm


WHAT IS HALO EFFECT?
Halo effect makes targets that have been in the ground a long time appear much larger than they actually are. Imagine an iron nail that has been in the ground for a number of years. As moisture in the ground slowly rusts the nail, forming iron oxides and iron salts, these oxides and salts migrate from the surface and tend to form a “halo“ around the nail. This, of course, makes it a lot “easier“ for a metal detector to detect. This effect is basically the same for most metals. When the target is dug, this halo effect (which takes years to form) is destroyed. So if you find a target due to the halo effect, and, for instance, it was a very weak signal, you will find that if you rebury it at the same depth, you will probably not now detect it (unless you leave it for five years!). For you beach-hunters, halo effect rarely has time to build up and will be destroyed if the ground moves. Relics are often found at greater depths due to these effects.
Gold can be very hard to find due to the odd shapes that are often formed. Halo effect really helps us liberate a lot of gold, as most gold hasn’t moved in a long time! But gold doesn’t rust or corrode I hear you say. Correct. Often where you find gold there are also salts and chemicals (like cyanide) and these will leach out the gold into the surrounding minerals, causing a halo effect.

[michael]

Black golds!!

Jeepers…all of the gold coins and jewelry I have dug has always come out of the ground/water in pristine condition. I am probably one of the lucky ones, digging/diving in an acid-free area.

Jeepers keepers....But I have seen some very old gold objects for over 2000 years (alloy over 22) had a distinctive black layer on the surface!!!! could you please explain it for me???!!

I should clarify my statements... we are talking about gold treasure, i.e., coins, jewelry, etc., that has been recently lost. Recently meaning 100's of days to 100's of years. We are talking about average natural conditions. We are not talking about millions of years, high pressures, or boiling hot temperatures.Yes, I know gold has an oxide. Yes, I know gold will dissolve in aqua regia. Yes, I know seawater has dissolved gold in it, on the order of 6 nanograms per liter....

You are right, my purpose was that gold is not immortal or unchangeable.
meanwhile for these action and interactions not necassary pass milion years. 10-20 years will do its' job.of course should be added it definitely depends on soil condition and components + weather
conditions had been there for years.(dry, rainy,...)

[hung]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,..

Now Carl says 'not exactly that what I meant'...
Yes this is exactly what you meant. No excuse.

Tinkerer posted the exact information about the phenomena described.
Carl even might not agree with Mineoro, he's free to believe what he wants. Even when evidences are overwhelming and thae answer is clear as Tinkerer's recipient of fresh water!

[hung]

You are right, my purpose was that gold is not immortal or unchangeable.
meanwhile for these action and interactions not necassary pass milion years. 10-20 years will do its' job.of course should be added it definitely depends on soil condition and components + weather
conditions had been there for years.(dry, rainy,...)

Exactly Michael. Good observation.
By the way, nice chemistry explanation posts above. It made me recall my chemistry classes.

[hung]

Also, add to this that even for a small gold object in this case, the deeper it's buried, the stronger the field it produces.
Did I hear the position of earth and its axis play an important role on this?
Hint, hint...

[okantex]

hi
why are you trying to find new phenomens.all of us know the truth about gold.does not ionize.
but there is something about it.it is diamagnetic meterial.reflects the the energy what ever causes it.Even a detector or earth.
have a look at this page .it is the phenomen used in magnometers also.
http://www.thortech.org/thortech/spa...p.needle2.html
and minoro and zahori uses the same.but zahori and mineoro only takes the +
positive signal which comes out of earth.
I remembers Esteban's experience for a empty hole which burned 3130.
why here nobody else tells about this?
do mineoro effected by cavities.?
and magnetic flux of earth changes place to place according to resisitivity.is not it?

[okantex]

hi
I hope you like my treasure chest

[okantex]

I think it is clear why zahori works north to south.
and why it detects farther from the north.