Classic III

[Geo]

Hi. I made the pcb for cl3 who Ivconic sent at forum. The pcb is a little difference :confused: than Jackdetect's pcb because maybe Ivconic made modifications at schematic. So I want Ivconic to send me the modifyed schematic.
Ivconic something else. If you have the plan how to put the components on the board please send it to me.
And something for Okantex. With more time at ironing my results are about 70% of perfect. I believe after 2..3 days to be 100%.
Ivconic where are you ? I think that you "otisla si... "
My best regards

[ivconic]

I am here...


I am here Geo! I'll prepare and post here! Give me day or two cose i am in a big rumble here...
regards

[ivconic]

....



Huh! Geo you gave me hard task to do....Let me explain...
First time i saw this,it was 4-5 years ago....No schematic,no project,
just ready made device....I done reverse eng. on it with a lot of
success. Since i was in a hurry, i didnt have much time to prepare
proper documentation for it at the time.
I started to make those.I used my hand writed (posted here) documentation.
Kind a used ond this, by time i became inert to make better documentation.
Therefore i ended with this...
Now when i have to help you, it is a sort of trouble.I do understand very well
how to use this....but how to explain,now, to you how to use this???
First step for you is to put jumpers on pcb...lot of them!
Carefully look on picture and compare with schematic....Slowly!
A lot of jumpers due to pcb remain small...
There are 3 jumpers "hidden" without already prepared holes for those!
Look on IC4 and IC7....IC4 has 2 jumpers over it and IC7 one jumper!
Also on IC8 on 6. pin there is resistor 22K connected only one side on
pcb,other side you must solder in the air and connect somehow with + pole.
As you can see, i marked those points as x1 and x2 on photo...
Also there is one unintenional mistake on the pcb. On IC1 there is wrong
connection on resistor 220K and cap.47Nf... You should cut a small piece
between those and pin 8. and leave pin 8 just for +....Resistor and cap.
you should connect with pin 7. on IC1...It will be easy since those are
very close....not big deal....
But if you trace this pcb while look in schematic...it will be so easy
to find out all those...
No other mistakes for sure...
I havent made any other changes...Just respect schematic and posted
pictures and it will work fine...
Now, start soldering jumpers and the rest of components...Later we will
talk more...
If any question come and ask. But sorry if i can not answer at once...
These days i am pretty much occupied with preparing for winter...i have
a lot of things to finish until....
I'll be here every 2-3 days and look for you questions...I'll answer
with some delay...sorry again..

One more thing;
Once i did serie of pcb's for CL3...but i made mistake and did it
REVERSED !!!! Can you imagine?
I didnt want to get rid of those,i felt sorry...than i decided to
use those anyway....
I had to distort/twist back all the pins of IC's and than solder those
on pcb "mirrored"....Ha,ha,ha....Somehow i managed not to destroy even
one IC....All worked perfect!
Somebody might be thinking that i did that intentionally...but not!
It was accident....But it will be so confusing if someone try reverse
eng. on those...ts,ts,ts!!!!
That is the reason why i posted reversed pcb here...but i forgot to
mention that....Sorry again...

If you have to twist pins like i did,best way is to use knife and
slowly "catch" all pins from one side of IC and very slowly,pushing
oposite you twist those....Do not be affraid,you not gonna break
pins if do carefully and slowly....
Than solder those as should be in mirror and that's it!

regards



Now i have problems to upload since files are huge!!! What should i do???

[ivconic]

Problems!

:confused:

Problems! Scanned papers gave huge files!
I have to degrade quality of those to fit here!
If you can not use this tell me and i'll try other way...
Huh!

[Geo]

Thanks.

OK Ivconic. Thank You . I made a pcb but it don't like to me (it has uncontinoues) so i will make another with iron as Okantex said to me. I will go to Athens for a problem so i ask you again at midle of next week.
My Regards
ps apology for the hard work that I forced you to do

[ivconic]

Dont worry!


Dont apologise, i would like to help...
here is more if any help...
See you next week!

[Geo]

O.K Ivconic thanks. I finished with jumpers and now i solder the components. Today i will go to buy the components that missing me. I am afraid about some capacitors (670pF, 76nF.4n2) but i will put 2 or 3 parallel and i will measure its value to be ok. I will begin with 1 battery 12V and a voltage doubler for +and - 9V. If it goes right then i will change the audio as you send at Zagori. Last i plan to put a preamplifier (A=1.5..2) on the coil. I believe that i will spend a nice winter.
Have a nice day

[Geo]

Turbo

Hi. I have read often about classic III Turbo . Who is the difference :confused: and what can i do so my new classic III to be the turbo version?
Maybe i am hasty because i don't finish the construct yet.
Regards

[Geo]

Finito but ...

Hi. Something is going wrong, last time everything that i make don't work .
I finished the classic III but don't work .I didn't find some components and replace them with other but i think that this isn't the reason:confused: . I replaced LF4111 with NE5534. LF444 with LM324 and MPSA13 with BC517. With a ready coil i have an oscilation at 6.24 Khz ( really what is the freq of CL3?) . the 5534 amplify about 250 and general all seems that the detector works but there isn't sound. When i move a object near the coil i see at scope a positive voltage (at base of bc517), the generator gives a pulse 1.9Khz at the audio driver but no sound. All the circuit is 2 transistors and some resistors. nothing else. I looked the circuit again and again but no results .
So i replace one's the transistors and then i will try the audio fo Zagori (4n35.555 etc).By the way i want to replace the 3 batteries 9v with one pack 6v or 9v. If i make the circuit that Ivconic sent at forum (gives 6V and takes 18v) i will connect it at the position of 2 batteries 9v. But remaining the sound (another battery 9V). So if i make a bridge at the out of 7808 to the input of 9V for audio is there any problem? I am waiting for tricks.
Ivconic when you will find time please send me how to build the spider coil. is the next stage. Today i will go to Athens so i will find the components that i haven't.
Best wishes

[ivconic]

CL3


O.K. Geo! I was absent few days....I am here now and i'll try to dig why your detector
isnt working properly....
Let's go step by step...
"...I am afraid about some capacitors (670pF, 76nF.4n2) but i will put 2 or 3 parallel..."
No,you dont need to "torture" yourself with precise components values for now. Just put any
nearest value you have....for now.
"I have read often about classic III Turbo..."
I do not have a clue about that??? Never mind!
" I replaced LF4111 with NE5534..."
No! You can not put 5534 just like that...For testing purposes you put LM358...later you
will put some else.....
"..LF444 with LM324 ..."
Yes this is O.K. I am using LM324 also in my devices....Good choice!
"...MPSA13 with BC517..."
BC517 is very good...but pay attention on pin assingments...oposite than MPSA13.BC517 (CBE),
while MPSA13 (EBC)....
Also i noticed when switching in pinpointing mode,if holding for 10 seconds or more BC517
is getting very hot and burn easy!
Better choice is 2N2222...but sound is not loud enough.Other hand with 2N2222 you can work
in pinponting mode for hours without any risk of burning it...

"With a ready coil i have an oscilation at 6.24 Khz ..."
Very good! CL3 should work from 6.35 to 6.9 kHz...(you have trimmer to adjust it)

"...(at base of bc517), the generator gives a pulse 1.9Khz at the audio driver but no sound.
All the circuit is 2 transistors and some resistors. nothing else...."

O.K. this is obvious that device is working properly but audio stage not! Look&check again
all arround audio....Check again BC517....replace it with 2N2222....but pay attention on
pins...(ECB CBE ...etc..)
Also it is very easy to find MPSA13...if you can not find it in shop,than find some old
modem (ISA or PCI slot) and almost every model have one MPSA13 on it....Ha,ha,ha!!! Very easy!
Cheap&dirty.....isnt it!?
"...So i replace one's the transistors and then i will try the audio fo Zagori
(4n35.555 etc)....."

No! First you make it work as original.Than you may experiment further....You need to see
how original supposed to work....

"...By the way i want to replace the 3 batteries 9v with one pack 6v or 9v. If i make the
circuit that Ivconic sent at forum (gives 6V and takes 18v) i will connect it at the position
of 2 batteries 9v. But remaining the sound (another battery 9V). So if i make a bridge at the
out of 7808 to the input of 9V for audio is there any problem?..."

Only problem can be that ferrite ring diammeter - 40mm! It was very hard for me to find such
large diammeter. I found ring s from 10mm to 24mm....Once i even found 32mm...but 40mm!? Huh!?
Better choice(much easier) is to use one 12Volts / 1.3 amps accu...and supply CL3 with it.
It will work very good. You do not need exact 18 volts at all!
I am using CL3 very often with 12v accu....To tell you the truth, I havent noticed any
differences between 12 volts and 18 volts supply in detectors performances so far?!

Spider coil...Huh!? Since original spider coil is very hard to copy, i tried many times to
make my own...
There are two spider coils from Fisher, on market. Small one (i think 8''...i am not sure)
and larger one with 27cm diammeter(comes with Fisher CZ5 and CZ7 usually).
So i tried to make larger one (27cm)....For RX (eliptical) i used 250 windings,0.2mm and
for TX i used 31 winding,0.2 to 0.3 mm (i am not sure...at the time i was tried to gain
proper resistance which is 3.8 ohms for TX and 30.5 ohms for RX)....
Also there is feedback coil on RX part with 11 windings same wire you used on TX...
Best way to make proper coil is to obey inductance of original...Also it will give almost
same resistance too.
So you have to experiment a bit....Well...
At the end i managed somehow (adding or substracting some from Feedback) , and my coil
work very good! 1cm coin it can detect at 35cm distance....
At the time i omited faraday cage and CL3 was very unstable....Later i added cage on TX
part and CL3 became very stabile....very important!
You can also try to build small spider from Jackdetects project....153 wind. for RX and
48 winds for TX....but 30x0.1mm parallel...Hello nurse!!!
If you can buy small spider in shop, than i suggest you to do that! It is working PERFECT
with CL3...so you do not have to bug yourself with making one...

P.S.
I was thinking to mod rx part and use NE5534 also! But it will need some more modifications
arround it....
Better you use LM358 for testing purposes, and when all start to work fine than you can
start to experiment with NE5534 or even better with some OP... series...(OP37,OP27...)

[ivconic]

Whattt!!!!





"....For testing purposes you put LM358...."

NO! Sorry! I was thinking on LF357 or LF356! Not LM358! Sorry!

I am in preparing to project some device with severeal LM358's...I havent sleep
for 2 days...very tired....Thats why i keep LM358 always on my mind! HUUUUH!!!

It should be LF357 or LF356 (whichever you like) to start with...later you
may change to some else op-amp....

I am sorry again Geo!
regards!

[Geo]

All are going wrong

Hi Ivconic. I am here again. I put a 2n2222 but audio don't work . I replaced NE5534 with LF357 (New one). First stage don't work with LF357 but work with 5534 . What to say. Now i haven't pulse at the input of bc517 (why?:confused: ).Pin 3 of LM358 has a input pulse when i move an object near the coil but pin1 has not pulse. I relace lm358 but nothing. I relace lm358 but nothing. I relace lm358 but nothing. I relace lm358 but nothing. I will see at afternoon.
Regards

[ivconic]

?????

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Very strange..????


I guess there must be some mistake, you made while assembling it?!

Check again, did you cut that mistaken connection on pin 8. of ic1 (ic 1 from my placement photo-posted here)??

Resistor and cap. should be connected to pin 7. not to pin 8....Just cut 2-3 milimeters between pins 7. and 8. and resistor and cap. should remain connected on pin 7.

Also you should check all those jumpers from upper side of pcb. Also you have 3 jumpers on ic's i ve been talking about...


Check all over again...must be some mistake for sure!

It is all arround LF357...maybe some mistake at MPSA13 or arround it???

It is quite tough for me to dig now what should be the problem since my devices always works fine from start, so i guess must be that you made some mistake because you do not have proper documentation...
You can go step by step....ask anything...i'll try to help..
regards
:confused:

[Geo]

Good News

Hi Ivconic. I have some good news. There was not problem with audio but with LM358 (the pulse was not right so it had not the ability to turn on the audio. I found 3 capacitors 100nF that had problem, they had a dc resistance from 6 to 10 k.. very strange. Also i forgot to put pin8 of IC1 at + 4.5V.Another problem was a bad line at audio power supply. Now it work but only at pinpoint. When i connect the bridge to -V for pinpoint switch there is an oscilation about 5V. Tommorow i will looking for it. At pinpoint i have a low volume audio (i use bc141 for mpsa13) who i can regulate with trimer 100k. With the coil that i have i can detect 2 Euro at 30cm and the a board 6x9cm at 65..70cm. Very good. i believe tomorrow to find the problem for disc and after to make the audio with 4N35 and 555. I will write you tomorrow
Regards

[Geo]

Perfect

Hi Ivconic. I finished the CL3 . It works. How it works ? Ohh PERFECT . Thanks Ivconic. All are working, Disc and Pinpoint, sens, audio at pinpoint(fron trimmer) . The coil that i have works very good. I will fine adjust it (with capacitors) because it is tuning for 6.95 Khs and i work it at 6.295 Khz but without tuning the Rx. I want to tell me how to fine adjust the detector with existing trimmers:confused: . Tommorow i'll try to make the new audio with 555and 4n35. I have a detector housing with robs and coil so i will put it inside this box. The box has an instrument so i will connect it at the audio input via a op.ampl. Do you have any Idea?
Ohh..about stability. EEEEEE......Perfect. I work it as you said with one 12V bat.
Regards