TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Max]

Hi
As I saw in circuit diagram, TGS working without threshold potentiometer.
Any body try add threshold potentiometer to TGS circuit?
What is result?
regards

Hi,
TGS is motion kind... no constant threshold at speaker... so no need to add a threshold control.

You can modify it to get it work as -nonmotion kind... but I think... it's better trying the BandidoII or Eldorado if you need that.

Also... keep in mind that non-motion behaviour in these detectors is about limited to pinpointing activity (at least in BandidoII is that way... just for pinpointing) cause there are problems of stability on longer time more than 1 minute.

Personally I leaved TGS in original behaviour (motion kind) but the mod is possible.

Kind regards,
Max

[aft_72005]

Hi Max
Thanks for your guide. I built elector vlf detector published year 1982 ,with pll ics
Years ago. It motion type, but had tuning or threshold level control potentiometer.
Are you trying building dual mode (motion-nonmotion) detector?
Best regards.

[Max]

Hi Max
Thanks for your guide. I built elector vlf detector published year 1982 ,with pll ics
Years ago. It motion type, but had tuning or threshold level control potentiometer.
Are you trying building dual mode (motion-nonmotion) detector?
Best regards.

Hi Aft,
I've not tryed that... but if you look at Tesoro's schematics... you'll see they are all similar (at least VLF kind) so it will be easy make mods also just with kind of cut and paste of parts from one to the other... even without making new stuff I mean...about circuits required.

Now the TGS is that way: it's motion kind... but it's easy to convert into nonmotion kind too cause just few mods could be required. I've not done but I think it's relatively easy to do... and maybe someone will do sooner or later with TGS... an operation similar to the Czech Sabre version... that's really interesting project on that mods on originals.

At now I'm not interested in this nonmotion mod... cause device works great as motion kind, but maybe in future I can plan of making that way.

The old elektor french edition PLL is different from these cause it was more like a BFO than an IB detector... even if it has IB coils. I remember it... once I decided to make it but then realized that the big drawback was at coils (have no data about) and about weight of it also, then not least important was also its complexity about use, really high with all that pots.
So I gave up on making it and started other projects instead.

As far as I remember it was a good detector for that age... and many realized it in France. Am I wrong?

Kind regards,
Max

[aft_72005]

Hi Max
Ok, about elektor vlf detector: I built it 10 years ago, I saw that article
With three language, English, French, Dutch.
It is used two pll circuit, one for oscillating and another for produced various phase
Angle for discriminating. one channel, It was very stable on workbench with two 27cm oo coil.
Motion type, in my opinion albeit it was 1982 designed, also still new. Also had good deep
In the air .
Best regards.

[junko]

Notch gain

Hi all
Now my TGS it' s working very good in all metal.
But i have found a problem, if i connect the 10k potentometr of the notch
filter the discriminator no work bad sensitivity.
I have modify the value of the notch potentiometer to 100 K and now all is working,
discriminator and notch with high sensitivity.
Where is the problem in the no mod schematic?
Any one that have build the TGS with 10k can help me ?

Thanks
Regards
Junko

[junko]

Forget my last message.
I have found the problem.
I have tuned the tx capacitor to obtain 14.7 khz
but not the rx capacitor.
I have retuned rx and now it' all ok,discriminator,geb and notch with 10 k .
Checked in the seaside very good and stable, with a big sensibility.
A big thank to all the contributor of this thread.



Best Regards

Junko

[Unregistered]

Junko where are you from?

[junko]

Junko where are you from?

Italy

[Unregistered]

Thanks.
Glad to here you make it work finaly.
From which points did you measure the frequency?

[junko]

Thanks.
Glad to here you make it work finaly.
From which points did you measure the frequency?

I have measured at tx coil pcb side.
My story :
I was confused from tickness of two kind of wire.
I have made a coil DD255 110w tx 120w rx resonating ( tx ) at 13.4Khz.
I have adjust tx capacitor to 16800 pf and rx capacitor to 11500 pf,
to obtain the right frequency ( with a good increase in sensibility ) and the right phase shift in rx.
I am planning to rebuild the coil with this wire (real awg30),
with 100w tx 105w rx I think it' s my right condiction
(i will check tx before cutting wire).

Regards

Junko

[Max]

I have measured at tx coil pcb side.
My story :
I was confused from tickness of two kind of wire.
I have made a coil DD255 110w tx 120w rx resonating ( tx ) at 13.4Khz.
I have adjust tx capacitor to 16800 pf and rx capacitor to 11500 pf,
to obtain the right frequency ( with a good increase in sensibility ) and the right phase shift in rx.
I am planning to rebuild the coil with this wire (real awg30),
with 100w tx 105w rx I think it' s my right condiction
(i will check tx before cutting wire).

Regards

Junko

Hi,
use 100/105 ratio and you'll be fine with 30AWG wire. Look at my previous stuff /pictures (you have to dig posts) to get right dimensions.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

I am back from several days of field experiments.
Max and others i have few questions here,maybe you can help;
I noticed strange behavior at my last 3-4 TGSL's???
On the field, when turned ON, those works perfectly stabille for 10-20 miutes.
Than suddenly device got pretty crazy!? Producing loud chatters and falses randomly. I tried so hard to locate source of problem. After a while, when turned OFF and ON again it is continue to work good and calm for a while.
And it is repeating this behavior randomly during all day on the field. Same was with another coil. And another. Same was when i chnged another TGSL device.
After hours of trying to locate problem, somehow i founded possible source; cable from coil to device???
I am using same cable in last 10 devices. It is shielded cable with 3 separate leads. Shiled and one lead for TX and other 2 leads for RX. RX is connected to gnd in search head on previously described way.
Cable is usually wounded in spiral arround bar.
So finally i discovered when device goes crazy i take spiral cable and moving it a bit up or down - sliding it on bar. In most of cases wild behavior disappears. In most of cases but not in all cases?
Sometimes i punch device box hard and falses disappear, sometimes dont.
I turned all possible pots and switches wildly during falses to spot if there is any possible break in cicruitry - but not.
So finally only moving spiral of cable up or down on bar can realtivlly solve the problem.
So i am thinking some intereferences occuring in cable spiral randomly.
Is it possible?
This is occuring only in TGSL version. I havent noticed simillar with TGS made on large pcb so far. Oh yes, once but it was short lasting problem.
Same behavior i had in the past with my Classic III handmades. Those usually worked very good but ocassionally perfomed same problematic falsing and chattering.
So...i am a bit confused? Is it cose of cable? I must change cable for good. Must find some other type o cable.
Can you tell here exactly what cable you are using?
Can you make photo or sketch.
This is long lasting problem i noticed from the first device i made. But in the past it was rare. Now at last several devices this problem is occuring frequently.
Actually in that moment it is irelevant if i lift coil away from soil or lower it down. Falses and chatters are constant. I tried to fix it with GEB knob, but it doesnt influencing this behavior at all.
So i imagine this as sudden appears of some static currents in cable. Those "staying" currents are there and resident until i do something randomly and than "disharge" those currents somehow.
I was thinking somehow to change something crucial in design to avoid this in future. But what? I was thinking to relocate RX cap 15nF from pcb to search head or ...??? I really dont have a clue. Once i tested with cap in coil and sensitivity was much less. Detection was poor.
Only one thing here interesting me much; is it possible that cable could "suck" up some interferences or other possibilty - cable to "load" some static currents in short time and it will distort RX permanently until i do something to "disharge" that load. By twisting and moving cable spiral up or down sliding on the bar or something simillar???
Very hard to locate problem itself. Once i locate it, it will be piece of cake to solve it. Damn!
Everybody here ...help!
Hey Carl,Sean....what do you think on this?

[ivconic]

I am back from several days of field experiments.
Max and others i have few questions here,maybe you can help;
I noticed strange behavior at my last 3-4 TGSL's???
On the field, when turned ON, those works perfectly stabille for 10-20 miutes.
Than suddenly device got pretty crazy!? Producing loud chatters and falses randomly. I tried so hard to locate source of problem. After a while, when turned OFF and ON again it is continue to work good and calm for a while.
And it is repeating this behavior randomly during all day on the field. Same was with another coil. And another. Same was when i chnged another TGSL device.
After hours of trying to locate problem, somehow i founded possible source; cable from coil to device???
I am using same cable in last 10 devices. It is shielded cable with 3 separate leads. Shiled and one lead for TX and other 2 leads for RX. RX is connected to gnd in search head on previously described way.
Cable is usually wounded in spiral arround bar.
So finally i discovered when device goes crazy i take spiral cable and moving it a bit up or down - sliding it on bar. In most of cases wild behavior disappears. In most of cases but not in all cases?
Sometimes i punch device box hard and falses disappear, sometimes dont.
I turned all possible pots and switches wildly during falses to spot if there is any possible break in cicruitry - but not.
So finally only moving spiral of cable up or down on bar can realtivlly solve the problem.
So i am thinking some intereferences occuring in cable spiral randomly.
Is it possible?
This is occuring only in TGSL version. I havent noticed simillar with TGS made on large pcb so far. Oh yes, once but it was short lasting problem.
Same behavior i had in the past with my Classic III handmades. Those usually worked very good but ocassionally perfomed same problematic falsing and chattering.
So...i am a bit confused? Is it cose of cable? I must change cable for good. Must find some other type o cable.
Can you tell here exactly what cable you are using?
Can you make photo or sketch.
This is long lasting problem i noticed from the first device i made. But in the past it was rare. Now at last several devices this problem is occuring frequently.
Actually in that moment it is irelevant if i lift coil away from soil or lower it down. Falses and chatters are constant. I tried to fix it with GEB knob, but it doesnt influencing this behavior at all.
So i imagine this as sudden appears of some static currents in cable. Those "staying" currents are there and resident until i do something randomly and than "disharge" those currents somehow.
I was thinking somehow to change something crucial in design to avoid this in future. But what? I was thinking to relocate RX cap 15nF from pcb to search head or ...??? I really dont have a clue. Once i tested with cap in coil and sensitivity was much less. Detection was poor.
Only one thing here interesting me much; is it possible that cable could "suck" up some interferences or other possibilty - cable to "load" some static currents in short time and it will distort RX permanently until i do something to "disharge" that load. By twisting and moving cable spiral up or down sliding on the bar or something simillar???
Very hard to locate problem itself. Once i locate it, it will be piece of cake to solve it. Damn!
Everybody here ...help!
Hey Carl,Sean....what do you think on this?

[ivconic]

Additionally i was wandering about cable lenght here?
Is it matter what lenght must be use in coil cables?
I noticed extremly long cables at Minelab coils. At Musketeer and Sovereign search heads, cables are so long that i could make my usuall 2 cables from one of those!??!
Are they put such long cables just to allow user to attach device on belt or there is another reason for that.
Aint no chance for me to obtain such high quality cable as Minelab's. But i used various cables so far on various handmades. This is first time (on TGSL) that i am having this problem almost constantly!?
Usually i do cut cable at 1-1.2 meters and it showed as enough for one search head. Even sufficient. But Minelab's cables are (havent measured but presuming) arround 2 meters and possibly more!!!!
I still do remember my nerving when assembling Musketeer or Sovereign on field preparing to start coinshooting. I had to wound and wound and wound cable arround bar so long - due its lenght!!!
But those Minelabs were rock stabille due propsecting - neither one false in months!
How can i predict cable behaviour? How to prevent this problem by calculating lenght of cable?
Cable i am using lately is not highest possible quality but for sure is not lowest either.
So i am really stuck in this problem seriously...need some help.

[DIRCEU]

Additionally i was wandering about cable lenght here?
Is it matter what lenght must be use in coil cables?
I noticed extremly long cables at Minelab coils. At Musketeer and Sovereign search heads, cables are so long that i could make my usuall 2 cables from one of those!??!
Are they put such long cables just to allow user to attach device on belt or there is another reason for that.
Aint no chance for me to obtain such high quality cable as Minelab's. But i used various cables so far on various handmades. This is first time (on TGSL) that i am having this problem almost constantly!?
Usually i do cut cable at 1-1.2 meters and it showed as enough for one search head. Even sufficient. But Minelab's cables are (havent measured but presuming) arround 2 meters and possibly more!!!!
I still do remember my nerving when assembling Musketeer or Sovereign on field preparing to start coinshooting. I had to wound and wound and wound cable arround bar so long - due its lenght!!!
But those Minelabs were rock stabille due propsecting - neither one false in months!
How can i predict cable behaviour? How to prevent this problem by calculating lenght of cable?
Cable i am using lately is not highest possible quality but for sure is not lowest either.
So i am really stuck in this problem seriously...need some help.

I DONT SOLVE MY PROBLEMS WITH TGS. WHEN THE COILS ARE PERFECT NULLED THE SENS GO AT MAX AND PRODUCE A SELFOSCILATION.

I WAS THINKING IN R.O.E. (ESTATIONARY WAVES) LIKE RADIOAMATEURS ANTENNAS WERE THE LENGHT OF CABLE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

REGARDS

DIRCEU