TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[ivconic]

Hi,
I can see some diferances.
What do you think Ivconic?

I think you saw it right. DD coil we made so far doesnt have center tap.
Maybe is time to experiment and make one with center tap.
Next coil i will make in that manner. I will report results.
Regards!

[ivconic]

I have pretty broken Fisher Gold Bug2, some parts missing,dont have schematic....
So..the hell with Bug 2. I used its enclosure (same case as with CZ5,1265..).
But that enclosure is a bit smaller than 1265 so i draw new pcb for it.
For those intereseted...

You will notice some parts are missing. After considering it good i decided to reject "fuse" part from oscillator stage. Occupying some space on pcb yet showed as uselles so far...

[ivconic]

...

[ivconic]

Now...previous was one pcb version, without latest mod. You can always add "piggy" over it and include that mod.
This one is also Gold Bug2 pcb version, but full TGSL included and splitted on 2 pcbs. On second pcb mod is included. There are correctly matched points on both pcbs. Put hard wires through those holes, solder to both pcbs and larger will hold smaller, no need for extra holders than.

Enjoy!

[ivconic]

....

[ivconic]

Now...one more thing;
it is often case TGS/TGSL to produce ocassional chatters and falses.Oftenly in All Metal mode,rarelly in Disc mode, so as i noticed. Especially if Sensitivity is adjusted high, usually over "8"..
Simillar case is almost with all other types of VLF metal detectors i saw so far. So as i posted in the past, Minelab Musketeer is having same behaviour.
I reconsidered this many times.
TGSL is very stabille, you can move coil,punch it,swing cable...still perfectly stabille neither one false or chatter. But those still apears from time to time.
Problem lays inside machine, not coming from coil and cable, i am sure!

One of possible explanation could be Quiaozhi's earlier remark on comparators hysterezis. So i checked those. But hysterezis exist there and it is pretty good soluted.Comparators inputs are fed with enough signal to keep those calm...

Next possible cause could be something arround threshold stage. I experimentd much arround it...have found nothing so bad to cause simillar problems.

And finally my last doubts are on this one (posted pic).
From collector of 2N2907, signal is fed to GEB/DISC stage.
That connection is very criticall!
100pF pass capacitor MUST be HIGH quality. I am also not sure about proper signal amplitude there!? If it is too high than it may cause ocassional problems...and if it is to low ...same case also!

How to establish proper signal amplitude there? How to stabilize it...to have no "jumps" ?
It is very critical - it affects phase very much. Could shift phase and distort Disc range dramatically.
I am working on this,though i could use some extra help here


P.S.
I will repeat again; TGSL even like this, is very,very stabille.If Sense is "8" and lower, and Disc mode is ON...than no falses and chatters at all.
But where is progress if i leave it like that and stay satisfied? No way!
I will push this more and more to make it perfectly stabille with Sense adjusted to maximum and to stay like that in All metal mode also!

[ivconic]

One more proof that this is not an issue at all (having chatters and falses when boosted to maximum) is recent testing of Tesoro Vaquero 2 Germany.

It is splendid detector. I was delited with it. Yet...same as with TGSL, Vaquero also showed huge instabillity and ocassional chatters when Sense was adjusted on more than "7".

Again, not an issue cose even adjusted to lower than "7" Vaquero is very good on depths...

[eclipse]

What about the dicrimination, you all say it's good.
I've red the discrimination in Tesoro circuits isn't that good, is
it the same with TGSL it has better disc than the 'normal' models from Tesoro?

[ivconic]

What about the dicrimination, you all say it's good.

I've red the discrimination in Tesoro circuits isn't that good, is
it the same with TGSL it has better disc than the 'normal' models from Tesoro?

Todays.. bunch of people are trying to attract more public attentions by claiming stupid claims. Usually they are not awared what are they talking about. It is very usuall those kind of people are totall ignorants without elementar knowledge.

On forums like this one and simillars, that kind of people are oftenly posting bunch of lunatc,stupid and totally ignorant statements.

Eclipse, do not pay attention of what supid and ignorant people are saying.
Instead...if you are interested a bit more in this subject; sit and do some work.
Make detectors, test those and establish your own experience.
Without your own experience and attitude you will become easy "victim" of such nonsences produced by total idiots. 80% of world population are naive laics.

Instead asking to many general questions, you better start working something for real.
Otherwise ... lay off any detailed dealing with this subject. Just buy some good detector and go outdoor for fun.
Regards!


P.S.

I am pretty tired of seeing so many general,non interesting and non productive rethorics here...mostly stupid questions..

90% of articels,posts and rethorics here are non productive at all.

Still this forum is much more productive than any other on the internet.
Considering this man can only be horrified with global situation in this sad world.

[Max]

One more proof that this is not an issue at all (having chatters and falses when boosted to maximum) is recent testing of Tesoro Vaquero 2 Germany.

It is splendid detector. I was delited with it. Yet...same as with TGSL, Vaquero also showed huge instabillity and ocassional chatters when Sense was adjusted on more than "7".

Again, not an issue cose even adjusted to lower than "7" Vaquero is very good on depths...

Hi,
depends of noise. In TGS you have also notch section and this will add more noise to the circuit. You can easy see that sometimes turning notch control, with notch off...you could actually increase or decrease the chatters...not always.

In TGSL, there's no notch section, less current also flowing in the circuit and you can gain stability but all as you reported.

If you turn to max the sens you'll probably get noise, chatters and the like: that's cause of components.

the amplification is very high and at max sens any fluctuation along the signal path will trigger sound and false signal.

Using some "special" components help... like , actually, Tesoro did in original detectors: 27M7 is an example, 27M2 is another... etc

If people use e.g. TL062 at TGS/TGSL sure they'll get troubles and could not rise sens to 5 , in many cases. Simply, some IC must be lower noise... otherwise the chatters become too easy to trigger at sens= 8.5-9.

So... the only one solution is searching for good components and replace the noisy ones.

Other stuff could have a role in that... like e.g. residual voltage at coil... shielding etc but you'll see that really when testing on soil.
Sometimes you can get it silent at max sens on the bench and goes deep on air too... then you go to test garden and discover that couldn't rise sens above 7.
Then made another coil... and you can rise to 9 on same soil and everything.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Hi,

depends of noise. In TGS you have also notch section and this will add more noise to the circuit. You can easy see that sometimes turning notch control, with notch off...you could actually increase or decrease the chatters...not always.

In TGSL, there's no notch section, less current also flowing in the circuit and you can gain stability but all as you reported.

If you turn to max the sens you'll probably get noise, chatters and the like: that's cause of components.

the amplification is very high and at max sens any fluctuation along the signal path will trigger sound and false signal.

Using some "special" components help... like , actually, Tesoro did in original detectors: 27M7 is an example, 27M2 is another... etc

If people use e.g. TL062 at TGS/TGSL sure they'll get troubles and could not rise sens to 5 , in many cases. Simply, some IC must be lower noise... otherwise the chatters become too easy to trigger at sens= 8.5-9.

So... the only one solution is searching for good components and replace the noisy ones.

Other stuff could have a role in that... like e.g. residual voltage at coil... shielding etc but you'll see that really when testing on soil.
Sometimes you can get it silent at max sens on the bench and goes deep on air too... then you go to test garden and discover that couldn't rise sens above 7.
Then made another coil... and you can rise to 9 on same soil and everything.

Kind regards,
Max

I guess you have right. Usually i dont take air "depths" as reference. Means so less to me. Yet testing on real soil is most important to me. That's why am i so satisfied with gained results. TGSL performs much better on soil than most of other detectors in that class. Perfectly stabille and huge depths.
But...once got good results doesnt mean i have to stop and been satisfied for good. No...i want more!
I dont make handamdes just to have detector at the end.
I am making all those to experiment more and more.
Must be better more and more.
At the same time i am hardly trying to keep main idea - design must be as simplest as it could be, lightweight,small pcb and easy to deal with.
I succeed this long time ago.
Now i am searching for more better solutions.
TGS is taken only as starting "console" to improve it more. Why? Simply TGS presented to me as excelllent compromise, considering all the aspects.
That's why i dont waste time experimenting with other designs,any more.
Take one good and work on it - my moto!

[Max]

I guess you have right. Usually i dont take air "depths" as reference. Means so less to me. Yet testing on real soil is most important to me. That's why am i so satisfied with gained results. TGSL performs much better on soil than most of other detectors in that class. Perfectly stabille and huge depths.
But...once got good results doesnt mean i have to stop and been satisfied for good. No...i want more!
I dont make handamdes just to have detector at the end.
I am making all those to experiment more and more.
Must be better more and more.
At the same time i am hardly trying to keep main idea - design must be as simplest as it could be, lightweight,small pcb and easy to deal with.
I succeed this long time ago.
Now i am searching for more better solutions.
TGS is taken only as starting "console" to improve it more. Why? Simply TGS presented to me as excelllent compromise, considering all the aspects.
That's why i dont waste time experimenting with other designs,any more.
Take one good and work on it - my moto!

Hi,
yes, agree, it's really a good one!

Once tuned properly outperform many "new" MDs that have big prices...

I like expecially the disc feature of it... that's cause it rejects small iron at minimum... a thing I always appreciate... don't need to dig nails!

Then... is also about simple, effective, lightweight and with low consumption all good things many other MDs lack about.

It's an excelent MD and the only thing missed is probably the all-metal no-motion mode... for pinpointing stuff. All the rest is already there, and now, with last mods is even better.

It's a little pearl... that costs really few, considering also the fun of making it.

And sure the last word isn't wrote about it.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

"...And sure the last word isn't wrote about it..."

You can bet on this! 100% true!

[tiktak]

I think you saw it right. DD coil we made so far doesnt have center tap.
Maybe is time to experiment and make one with center tap.
Next coil i will make in that manner. I will report results.
Regards!

Hi,
Ivica.
How are you?
I have also my moments.But the interesting thing is that TGS and TGSL are working so good with your coil and used so far wiring.But we should stay close to manifacture.Its wired this way for purpuse.

p.s.I am going on a vacation tomorrow and wont be here for a week but when return I will finish my last TGSL and will post some pictures here.
What about this mass for filling coils that you have found?Any tip?


Thanks

[ivconic]

It is same mass used to fill fly back transformers for tv's and similar.
I am using product from local company. But you can find it in your country for sure also...