TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Max]

Yup! Finally TX is 14.6kHz and RX 16.1kHz. TGSL TX LC is not parallel. There are 0.22 and 0.022 in emittor forming actually 20nF capacitance parallel to 6mH inductance..giving approx. 14.xxkHz.
I was seriously thinking to make ceneter tapped RX coil. Have expectations that it will give better performances..

Hi,
RX is 16.1KHz ?

About TX, 14.6Khz is really cool at it: in Colpitts' oscillator the resonant tank is made by 2caps and the inductance.

The formula is :

f = 1/(2*pi*sqrt(L*Cx))

where Cx is due to the 2 caps there --> Cx = (C1*C2)/(C1+C2)

So... it's the lowest value one that dictate the frequency... with the influence of the larger one.

In TGS, at operating frequency, the tank is like made by the L and a 21.80nF cap.

So if the TX inductance is e.g. 5.45mH we'll get the 14.6Khz.

Now... I have to say that in my original coil I read not 5.45mH at TX but around 5.85mH that gave me about 14.1Khz on TGS.

But this is for the spider 9x8''... other coils are maybe different. I think spider coils by Tesoro have larger inductance at TX and lower at RX...maybe due to assembling procedure they use there...

Not to say that the 5.45mH coil (my fabulous homemade DD) works much better than the original Tesoro coil... same for my old 22cm DD... better also than the 9x8''. I found it good performative just on bandido... on TGS is just a very average coil.

PS: if you connect RX to oscillator you'll get lower frequency cause there's more inductance... so why you read 16.1Khz ???

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Hi,
RX is 16.1KHz ?

About TX, 14.6Khz is really cool at it: in Colpitts' oscillator the resonant tank is made by 2caps and the inductance.

The formula is :

f = 1/(2*pi*sqrt(L*Cx))

where Cx is due to the 2 caps there --> Cx = (C1*C2)/(C1+C2)

So... it's the lowest value one that dictate the frequency... with the influence of the larger one.

In TGS, at operating frequency, the tank is like made by the L and a 21.80nF cap.

So if the TX inductance is e.g. 5.45mH we'll get the 14.6Khz.

Now... I have to say that in my original coil I read not 5.45mH at TX but around 5.85mH that gave me about 14.1Khz on TGS.

But this is for the spider 9x8''... other coils are maybe different. I think spider coils by Tesoro have larger inductance at TX and lower at RX...maybe due to assembling procedure they use there...

Not to say that the 5.45mH coil (my fabulous homemade DD) works much better than the original Tesoro coil... same for my old 22cm DD... better also than the 9x8''. I found it good performative just on bandido... on TGS is just a very average coil.

PS: if you connect RX to oscillator you'll get lower frequency cause there's more inductance... so why you read 16.1Khz ???

Kind regards,
Max

Yes Cx is approx. 20nF ( 21.xx) so as i posted in previous post.

About RX...no i am not connecting RX LC to TX output to measure Freq.
Simply i got 16.xxkHz from calculation, taking L and C values from presented RX setup..

[Max]

Yes Cx is approx. 20nF ( 21.xx) so as i posted in previous post.

About RX...no i am not connecting RX LC to TX output to measure Freq.
Simply i got 16.xxkHz from calculation, taking L and C values from presented RX setup..

Hi,
yes, now I understand, sure you're right about it.

If the inductance is 6.2mH (like often in tesoro's coils for that detectors) one will get around 16.5Khz using the 15nF cap there.

That's about 2Khz up than tx frequency...so far enough to be resonant involved.

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Thi is why we can get incredible sensitivity with some coils, when the get almost tuned, but with lots of stability problems..
LC meter is a must have
Regards,
Fred.

[wild_desert]

PSPICE Analysis of TGSL-1265

Hi friends
This is SPICE analysis of OSC section of TGSL-1265 with all associated loads.
Tx signal is not stable with loads but without loads it becomes stable.
What is the problem?

[Max]

Hi friends
This is SPICE analysis of OSC section of TGSL-1265 with all associated loads.
Tx signal is not stable with loads but without loads it becomes stable.
What is the problem?

Hi,
you must always consider the internal series resistance in the coil models. The instability is probably due to a wrong simulation param.

In my simulation the tx signal appears almost stable in amplitude.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

In some simulators TGSL oscillator will not start to oscillate at all !!!
Still it is working from a start eachtime i finish another one and switch ON.
So...simulators "...are good for absolutelly nothing!"
Joking of course, Max is right, some parameters are not set up..

In LiveWire it will not start at all? Yesterday i tried...no results!?


http://rapidshare.com/files/51075143...1_Pro.rar.html

[ivconic]

Just finished center tapped coil for TGSL...
Wow! Never mind the "depths" in the air, it is not what i want to say here...but phase behavior!!!? Wow!
Quite different than with pevious coils..!
I dont want to tell stories here, just want to suggest you to asap make center tapped coil, and see with your own eyes..
I am in the middle of experimenting and examing recent setup..be back soon..
Cheers!

[Max]

Just finished center tapped coil for TGSL...
Wow! Never mind the "depths" in the air, it is not what i want to say here...but phase behavior!!!? Wow!
Quite different than with pevious coils..!
I dont want to tell stories here, just want to suggest you to asap make center tapped coil, and see with your own eyes..
I am in the middle of experimenting and examing recent setup..be back soon..
Cheers!

Hi,
I see... but what about the depth in air ?

I'd like to know them too...

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Hi,
I see... but what about the depth in air ?

I'd like to know them too...

Kind regards,
Max

So far (on the bench) excellent!

[amtech2005]

TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

Hello Ivconic , Max . Are all tesoro coils center tapped ??? Also Qiaozhi pointed out , some tesoro coils are designed to be out of phase for pre-discrimination , is this on all Tesoro coils ????...........Thanks ...........Eugene

[Aziz]

So far (on the bench) excellent!

Well done ivconic!

Please make a 1 Euro coin benchmark test (air-test).

Aziz

[wild_desert]

Trust Simulation

Don't mistake friends
MicroSim Pspice is not baby toy ... I made many circuits with aid of it from 1995 to now. I have dialup connection and 60MB upload is unpractical to send it fou you.

Just change R5 from 100K to 220K so TGSL works with every Coil ... believe ... test it

[ivconic]

Well done ivconic!

Please make a 1 Euro coin benchmark test (air-test).

Aziz

I was tired today to experiment a bit more. You know what? Now iron is not that hard rejected as with previous coils. With previous coils iron was hard to detect even in All Metal mode.GEB trimmer was approx. at middle point. Disc was "slow", man had to turn it more to up to reject foil. Now, iron is detectable even in Disc mode at "1" to "2", over "2" is rejected totally. Ferrite rod is not detectable any more at all. In both modes turning GEB trimmer fully from minus to plus ferrite rod remains not detectable at all???
1e coin is bairly detectable!? Other hand, nickel is very good detectable!?
Day after tomorrow i am expecting new oscilloscope to get (finally), so i will not perform "wild and blind" experiments any more. Day after tomorrow i will perform full experiments and finally make some conclusions.
Although present situation with center tapped coil is not yet clear, i have strong feeling that it will perform much better than ordinary coil. Why? I cant explain, i just have such strong feeling.
Please give me some suggestions...

P.S. it is obvious that phase is shifted more here... Question is; will be more easy now to GEB it on real soil...or not? Further...those infamous chatters....are those will exist again? So far i think those will exist. It is not about coil, it is about something on pcb...

[ivconic]

Don't mistake friends
MicroSim Pspice is not baby toy ... I made many circuits with aid of it from 1995 to now. I have dialup connection and 60MB upload is unpractical to send it fou you.

Just change R5 from 100K to 220K so TGSL works with every Coil ... believe ... test it

R5 is just part of "fuse" stage there, does not have any relation with what you are suggesting here!?