TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Ultimate_Haze]

Hi

Hi,
I will try MAX and will inform you.Thanks!
This smaller coil should be well ground balansing and will be more sensitive I think!
But any way I am shore that will wind for a while before I make proper coil.
My G.Sabre still not ready.........
Will try it on Pulse IB discriminator (by Sasho - Varna) that I have finish yesterday!
But will finish it within few days and will post the results!
Thanks again

[Ultimate_Haze]

Can you look at this ugly picture posted for Pulse IB discriminator (by Sasho - Varna) and tell me are components marked corect?Because I used this as a guid!

[Max]

Can you look at this ugly picture posted for Pulse IB discriminator (by Sasho - Varna) and tell me are components marked corect?Because I used this as a guid!

Hi,
ehm this thread is becoming an Ultimate_Maze can't find stuff. Wich picture ??? Sasho's circuit picture...?
I don't know much of his detector... maybe you could ask him to know if everything is ok or there are bugs in posted stuff.

Best regards,
Max

[Ultimate_Haze]

Hi,

Sorry!
Never mind.
I wont ask so many questions any more.

[Ultimate_Haze]

Schematics/Pulse IB discriminator (by Sasho - Varna)/3

Posted by stupid man called GETO

[Qiaozhi]

I made DD with 120turns for both tx and rx... wire is not so important... but you have to match 18-23 ohm resistance, and of course impeadance... but it's relatively easy (compared e.g. with my homemade CC 8'', that was not so easy to null). You could use 30awg wire... or 0.28mm diameter (with varnish).

So my rough calculation was pretty close then?

[nelson]

Hi Max and all friends here on the forum.
Ok, yesterday i was playing all day with DD coils to match it to 6 and 6.5 mH, and resistance btw. 18 to 22 ohms. Ok, the game was not easy for me, because when when i started to wind turns around a D shape of 22 cms high by 11 cms in diameter i got the following results:

RX 115 turns, not tighted, 6.312 mH
108 turns, not tighted, 5.478 mH
105 turns, not tighted, 5.079 mH
105 turns, tight with aluminium foild, 6.800 mH
104 turns, tight with aluminium foild, 6.798 mH
99 turns, tight with aluminium foidl, 5.824 mH
** 99 turns, tight with aluminium foild and taped with electric tape, 6.723 mH

TX 101 turns, not tighted, 4.811 mH
101 turns, tighted with aluminium foil, 6.402 mH
100 turns, tighted with aluminium foil, 5.995 mH
100 turns, tighted with aluminum foil and wound very strong with electric tape 7.542 mH
98 turns, tighted with aluminum foil and wound very strong with electric tape 5.669 mH
96 turns, not tighted, 5.378 mH
94 turns, not tighted, 5.199 mH
92 turns, not tighted, 5.003 mH
89 turns, not tighted, 4.600 mH
87 turns, not tighted, 4.458 mH
84 turns, not tighted, 4.137 mH
** 84 turns, tighted with aluminum foil and wound very strong with electric tape 5.787 mH

On both coils i used 0.25 mm wire.
Resistance on TX coil is 16.7 ohms ( a little lower)
Resistance on RX coil is 19 ohms

** I tested the coils and after i found the nulling point i got 22 cms for a 14 mm coin on air.

Max and all who are working on this project, what do you think of this results.

I used a good working LC meter, not a multimiter

I hope my own results can help us to find a good working DD coil.
I forgot to ask, what is the real trick when you wound the coil. In my case i use a smal cord to tight the coils, then i put on it the aluminium foild and i finish with the electric tape. When i place the electric tape, of course i noticed that the inductance goes high about 2 mH. So i decided to eliminate the electric tape in some cases and just wound the coils with the aluminium foil, so you can tune it easier just by tighting the foil or relising it a little, so you can play with the inductance valu a few mH.

Ok, i hope this can help to get to the best match.
Regards

Nelson

Hi Ultimate,
as I said before (somewhere) I've 3 working coils for my bandido, and tested them very carefully.
First is original tesoro's coil 9x8 spider.
Second is homemade concentric coplanar 8'' diameter round.
Third is homemade DD 22cm diameter coil (much like Nelson's one).

I have good performances with all of these!

9x8 and concentric round are really useful for pinpointing, really easy... and have similar behaviour on the field when you detect a target... no big differences between.

DD is another story... it gives me some (sometimes incredible) boost on depth and I could say that it gain maybe 8-10% in depth respect 9x8 I use too on the field. But pinpointing you'll do with tip of coil... not easy. Keep in mind that you lose some disc using DD coil... but really few... you need CC to get best disc (I've best with 9x8 ).

I made DD with 120turns for both tx and rx... wire is not so important... but you have to match 18-23 ohm resistance, and of course impeadance... but it's relatively easy (compared e.g. with my homemade CC 8'', that was not so easy to null). You could use 30awg wire... or 0.28mm diameter (with varnish).
What's truly important is nulling. A good nulling is a must for every tesoro clone coil... (and vlf-tr in general) cause if you can't get few mV peak-to-peak nulling you'll experience saturations, instability and loss of sens.

I suggest you making DD first cause it's easy to get it work in few time... then, if you want/have time/have wire to cut... try to make a good CC 8'' or
10''.

Best regards,
Max

[Max]

So my rough calculation was pretty close then?

As always

[Max]

Hi Max and all friends here on the forum.
Ok, yesterday i was playing all day with DD coils to match it to 6 and 6.5 mH, and resistance btw. 18 to 22 ohms. Ok, the game was not easy for me, because when when i started to wind turns around a D shape of 22 cms high by 11 cms in diameter i got the following results:

RX 115 turns, not tighted, 6.312 mH
108 turns, not tighted, 5.478 mH
105 turns, not tighted, 5.079 mH
105 turns, tight with aluminium foild, 6.800 mH
104 turns, tight with aluminium foild, 6.798 mH
99 turns, tight with aluminium foidl, 5.824 mH
** 99 turns, tight with aluminium foild and taped with electric tape, 6.723 mH

TX 101 turns, not tighted, 4.811 mH
101 turns, tighted with aluminium foil, 6.402 mH
100 turns, tighted with aluminium foil, 5.995 mH
100 turns, tighted with aluminum foil and wound very strong with electric tape 7.542 mH
98 turns, tighted with aluminum foil and wound very strong with electric tape 5.669 mH
96 turns, not tighted, 5.378 mH
94 turns, not tighted, 5.199 mH
92 turns, not tighted, 5.003 mH
89 turns, not tighted, 4.600 mH
87 turns, not tighted, 4.458 mH
84 turns, not tighted, 4.137 mH
** 84 turns, tighted with aluminum foil and wound very strong with electric tape 5.787 mH

On both coils i used 0.25 mm wire.
Resistance on TX coil is 16.7 ohms ( a little lower)
Resistance on RX coil is 19 ohms

** I tested the coils and after i found the nulling point i got 22 cms for a 14 mm coin on air.

Max and all who are working on this project, what do you think of this results.

I used a good working LC meter, not a multimiter

I hope my own results can help us to find a good working DD coil.
I forgot to ask, what is the real trick when you wound the coil. In my case i use a smal cord to tight the coils, then i put on it the aluminium foild and i finish with the electric tape. When i place the electric tape, of course i noticed that the inductance goes high about 2 mH. So i decided to eliminate the electric tape in some cases and just wound the coils with the aluminium foil, so you can tune it easier just by tighting the foil or relising it a little, so you can play with the inductance valu a few mH.

Ok, i hope this can help to get to the best match.
Regards

Nelson

Hi Nelson,
I think you have done a good work... lots of experiments with more and less turns, lots of readings of their values and that's ok. Also that's ok that tightening the windings you get higher inductance... and also when you add the al shield. Everything fine.

"** I tested the coils and after i found the nulling point i got 22 cms for a 14 mm coin on air"

good result, but I think you could tune it better...
What about coin , wich metal it is ? Alloy ?

Some little tricks are related to shield. Have you tested coils without it ?
If so, what's detection range for same coin ? It's kitchen al roll or something else (I've noticed that aluminium/mylar is better , due to less metal content, but hard to find)?

Other issue is the overlapping zone shape and wideness. What about ? Parallel overlapping or oval ? How many millimeters between two windings at center ?

When you nulled what's the peak-to-peak voltage at RX (dumped)?

I think that with good tuning you could gain some cms.

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Hi


Hi,
just back to short break. It is hot here, 43 degrees!
Hard conditions to stay outdoor for longer period..
Anyway, i have few more notices for you people;
First, i made several coils for TGS, all of them are DD.
I usually used old proven method, like so many times
described here.No need to repeat again.
But let's back to good old Minelab coils; those are
working very good!
Have you ever took a good,steady look on those shapes?
Minelab DD coils are all simillar,but much more different
than any hand-made i ever seen....
Angle of overlaping is less than at usuall hand-made?
So i tried to "copy" that shape and see what's going on.
Finally made a bit larger DD coil with 28cm diammeter.
Of course i used 0.25mm (0.28mm with varnish) wire for both
coils...
Results are much better than expected. 1cm nickel coin at
40cm in the air and 33cm in the ground!!!
Discrimination - PERFECT! Stabillity - PERFECT! Neither one
false signal, no matter if i swing coil,cable...or simillar
"torture" due testing stabillity...
But i tried to respect Minelab "shape" and overlap coils tight
and close, without rising distance between overlaping parts.
Also noticed, this way is much easier later to null coils.
Usually it takes 10-15 minutes to null coil with a lot of
efforts, now; it takes me few seconds to find best "spot" to
null those!!!?
Except benefits, i havent noticed any drawback of doing this way.
Performances are much better now.
Minelab...ehm! If you can not beat them, than learn from them!
No need for further explanations,just look at picture.
I am not sure why this coil is working better and why it is much
easy to balance it....i can make assumptions here..but must be
some of you more conversant to explain, better than me?
Another tip; detector housing...! Ts,ts,ts...i had so many
problems in the past to find proper housing for my detectors.
Now, it's a piece of cake!
Remember good old Hercules monitor for pc XT and later 286/386..???
Back side,lid made of plastic,part which covers tubular end of screen!?
Simply use small,precise saw and cut nicely that part of plastic and you have
very nice housing for detector! Look on the picture...
Front panel cut from another piece of plastic....and that is all!
Very best regards!

[ivconic]

Ugly coil!

Ugly coil, isnt it?
I made it without much of material....Anyway it is working good!

[ivconic]

Hercules housing 1

Hercules housing ....

[ivconic]

Hercules 2

Hercules 2

[ivconic]

No of turns!!!


OOOH! I forgot to mentioned number of turns for this coil;

120 turns for TX and 125 for RX....

Bye!

[Max]

Hi,
just back to short break. It is hot here, 43 degrees!
Hard conditions to stay outdoor for longer period..
Anyway, i have few more notices for you people;
First, i made several coils for TGS, all of them are DD.
I usually used old proven method, like so many times
described here.No need to repeat again.
But let's back to good old Minelab coils; those are
working very good!
Have you ever took a good,steady look on those shapes?
Minelab DD coils are all simillar,but much more different
than any hand-made i ever seen....
Angle of overlaping is less than at usuall hand-made?
So i tried to "copy" that shape and see what's going on.
Finally made a bit larger DD coil with 28cm diammeter.
Of course i used 0.25mm (0.28mm with varnish) wire for both
coils...
Results are much better than expected. 1cm nickel coin at
40cm in the air and 33cm in the ground!!!
Discrimination - PERFECT! Stabillity - PERFECT! Neither one
false signal, no matter if i swing coil,cable...or simillar
"torture" due testing stabillity...
But i tried to respect Minelab "shape" and overlap coils tight
and close, without rising distance between overlaping parts.
Also noticed, this way is much easier later to null coils.
Usually it takes 10-15 minutes to null coil with a lot of
efforts, now; it takes me few seconds to find best "spot" to
null those!!!?
Except benefits, i havent noticed any drawback of doing this way.
Performances are much better now.
Minelab...ehm! If you can not beat them, than learn from them!
No need for further explanations,just look at picture.
I am not sure why this coil is working better and why it is much
easy to balance it....i can make assumptions here..but must be
some of you more conversant to explain, better than me?
Another tip; detector housing...! Ts,ts,ts...i had so many
problems in the past to find proper housing for my detectors.
Now, it's a piece of cake!
Remember good old Hercules monitor for pc XT and later 286/386..???
Back side,lid made of plastic,part which covers tubular end of screen!?
Simply use small,precise saw and cut nicely that part of plastic and you have
very nice housing for detector! Look on the picture...
Front panel cut from another piece of plastic....and that is all!
Very best regards!

Hi ivconic,
I've noticed all you said too! On big overlapping area I get into troubles with false signals ! I subscribe everything !
But I've made my bandido's DD like you said about minelab stuff !
And then it works really cool.

Thanks for drawing pattern!

Best regards,
Max