TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[nelson]

Ivconic, i follow same coil details that you made. Wire is the same, 0.25mm or 30AWG, for 120 turns not tighted jet, shows on my L/C Meter IIB (see picture of it), 11.43 mH and this will be more that this when i tight the coil. Rsistance is 30.2 ohms, but tomorrow i ll check impedance with other two multimeters.
I repeat, dimensions and form is the same.
May be the inductance is not 6.0 and 6.5 mH, because my two other coils, had to be readjusted to get 6.0 and 6.5 mH, and this means to take of lost of turns has was publish. Also performance is not good enough.
So i think that i ll just forget mesures and just made the coils has you posted, 120 turns, 28 cms in diameter and 0.25 mm wire, and after that i ll try to null both coils and see whats happends.
Does anyone had build a coils with diferent values ?

Regards
Nelson

Nelson, i am not sure!? My inductance meter is burned....i tried to fix it and it is showing 6.8uH...but i can not swear in its accuracy..


Others; friends, simply follow schematic,trace lines and you will find out proper way to turn transistors!

Unregistered, do i need to answer on every of you stupid questions???
Tesoro Golden Sabre is my responsibillity....but previous pcb is NOT.
Ask author of pcb , not me!

Besides, you can do few thing by your own? Wanna make detector? Go ahead! I will help you, but i wont teach you elementar things!

If man do not have elementar knowledge about components,packages etc...How, the hell, he expect to build complicated device as detector?????

Sorry, i am tired to much! I'll take few days rest...maybe more...

[ivconic]

Aspirin - Bayer !


I think all missunderstanding is about wire gauge?!
When i said 0.25mm i always think on 0.28mm with varnish.
How to measure wire gauge without jitters?
Varnish can be easilly lysed by acetisalycylum acid.
Where to find acid? Remember Aspirin from Bayer?
Tablet is protected with very thin acid "film".
What you have to do is to lay wire on tablet and heat both
with soldering iron until melted a bit.
After second or two, you will notice how wire become
"silver", due tin which coated it.
Last step is to use smallest grain sanding paper possible,
to sand wire good and carefully.
When wire is clean and shiny you can measure it accuratelly!
No jitters at all. Than you can be sure what gauge is that!
That is my method. I always perform measures like that.
All my claims, datas on wire gauge are based on measurements
as described...
P.S.
It will be much easier if you obtain liquid acid and "wash"
wire in it to dissolve varnish.
When i dont have Aspirin, i use lighter to "burn" varnish, but
this method can give you some jitter...

[tiktak]

hi

Hi sorry guys but this is site for begginers!
You dont have to answer to all my stupid questions,but I am here to learn.
And will be glad if you all help.
But understand that I have just finish this PCB and this are the last things to arange before I can test!
Dont you remember what is the feeling?
Look PLEASE why I am confused:my trensistors are labeled PN2222A!And I were looking at all data that I can find in internet for understand how to fit this on the board!
And I have reach this confusion:

[ivconic]

OK

TikTak it is OK with you. I just dont like to much questions from "Unregistered"....
PN2222 is 2N2222. I dont think you can use it....or..yes you can use it but you will have weak sound....Pin assignments on PN(2N)2222 is CBE, same as on BC517, oposite than on MPSA13...
As you posted part fo pcb above is right way to turn transistor....
(E) is going to speaker, (C) is going on 22 ohms resistor and supply....(B)ase no need to explain - input...
Yes i remeber the "feeling" !
Wish you success!

[ivconic]

Trs...

2N2222 b>100 C B E
MPSA13 b>5000 replacements (BC517,BC617,BC875,BSR50) E B C
MPSA14 b>10 000 E B C

BC517 b>30 000 replacements (BC875,BC877,BC879) C B E

To put end of this transistor "thing" here, i give you comparsion
between some of them.
Point is to use transistor with high gain rate to have proper sound
level.
As you see 2N2222 does not have enough gain to do the job. It will
produce weak sound - not suitable.
MPSA13 is standard for this, gain of >5000 is just enough.
MPSA14 will provide almost same sound level as 13, maybe a bit more.
BC517 will produce very loud sound....maybe way to loud for my taste!
Also there is danger to use 4 or 8 ohm speaker with it. In manner to
keep device as small as possible it is usuall to pack it in small
housing. Small housing mostly allows only small speakers to be built in.
Most famous speaker for hand-mades is the one from "Chinese toys"...
It is usually 8 ohms...If BC517 is used, it will "kill" that speaker in
no time!
Most likely, when speaker die, may produce shorts and kill BC517 also!
Either use high quality 16 ohms speakers with BC517, either use MPSA13
at the output.....
I tried with serial resistor to protect speaker...but no help!
10 ohms resistor survived but speaker NOT! I usually use MPSA14....
But do have one detector with BC517 at output. That transistor killed
5-6 speakers so far!!!
It is not easy to obtain good 16 ohms speaker these days.....

[tiktak]

hi

Hi,
Ok Ivconic.
First thank for your advice.But I cant find MPSA13 or 14!I have BC517!
Will try?I will be prepared to change BC517 and speaker.

The question for PN2222 was maybe configured from me wrong and thats why you dont unerstand what I ask?

I am confused because I bought PN2222A and they are TO-92 version and when search on internet to see the pin configuration there are two pin configurations?I dont which to belive and use?!?
Please look at the picture in my last post and HELP!
Thanks

[nelson]

Excellent medicine for varnish remover, ha ha ha .
But anyway i tried this and it works great, thanks Ivconic.
About wire, no dubs, it is 0.25 mm and 0.28 mm vith varnish. I got it from the wire factory and is label 30AWG. I also measure with and without varnish with digital instrumentation, and it´s ok.
Ivconic, don´t take it bad, but you said that your inductance meter is burn. What about impedance meter? Have you tried with another one. Sorry but i just whant to make shure of everithing to get your values.

In advance thanks
Best regards
Nelson

I think all missunderstanding is about wire gauge?!
When i said 0.25mm i always think on 0.28mm with varnish.
How to measure wire gauge without jitters?
Varnish can be easilly lysed by acetisalycylum acid.
Where to find acid? Remember Aspirin from Bayer?
Tablet is protected with very thin acid "film".
What you have to do is to lay wire on tablet and heat both
with soldering iron until melted a bit.
After second or two, you will notice how wire become
"silver", due tin which coated it.
Last step is to use smallest grain sanding paper possible,
to sand wire good and carefully.
When wire is clean and shiny you can measure it accuratelly!
No jitters at all. Than you can be sure what gauge is that!
That is my method. I always perform measures like that.
All my claims, datas on wire gauge are based on measurements
as described...
P.S.
It will be much easier if you obtain liquid acid and "wash"
wire in it to dissolve varnish.
When i dont have Aspirin, i use lighter to "burn" varnish, but
this method can give you some jitter...

[ivconic]

Oh my Lord!

TikTak.....read my lips; C B E !!!

Yes i am awared that PN2222 is in plastic case.....So C B E ...


Nelson,....impendance...inductance....stupidance.. ..call it anyway you want;
I HAVE ONLY ONE AND IT IS BURNED ! NO WAY FOR ME TO FIND ANOTHER NOW !!! (I live deep in mountain far away from any shop)....

Sheeeeeesh!!!!


Hah,hah,hah!!!!!

Friends....do not be angry on me....i am joking of course...!

[Max]

TikTak.....read my lips; C B E !!!

Yes i am awared that PN2222 is in plastic case.....So C B E ...


Nelson,....impendance...inductance....stupidance.. ..call it anyway you want;
I HAVE ONLY ONE AND IT IS BURNED ! NO WAY FOR ME TO FIND ANOTHER NOW !!! (I live deep in mountain far away from any shop)....

Sheeeeeesh!!!!


Hah,hah,hah!!!!!

Friends....do not be angry on me....i am joking of course...!

Hi ivconic,
"read my lips; C B E !!!" but using that sombrero I cannot trust you !

BTW sometimes I feel like Benny Hill too here...???
we have to share the avatar!

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Yakety sax !

Yakety sax !

[nelson]

Hi Ivconic. Well this really looks like a joke, today i took my GS to a local park and after 30 minutes i got losts of coins with it. Also it shows me that GS is really a good machine, solid sound on coins and good discrimination too, same has you. I also compared with my ACE 250 and i must recognize that golden sabre is much much better. So the circuir is really working has a champ.
The only think that still keep me busy, is a good coil, to allow me to get coins and others stuff deeper.

I am really confused now, don´t know if i finish the 28 cms coil with 11.43 mH for TX, 120 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 30.2 ohms of resistance and same form has you did or i should take less turns to reach the correct impedance (19 to 22 ohms).

Here i m posting a sketch of my coil details. I also check resistance with another multimeter that shows 31.6 ohms, so the problem is still on the coil.

Anyone that can help i ll really apreciate that.

Best regards

Nelson

Hi ivconic,
"read my lips; C B E !!!" but using that sombrero I cannot trust you !

BTW sometimes I feel like Benny Hill too here...???
we have to share the avatar!

Best regards,
Max

[nelson]

Hi again. I also have calculated two coils for TX. One with 11.4 mH, that is the one i have with 120 turns on a 28 cms form. The other is for 6 mH and turns is around 86 for same form dimension.
This shows me that my measurements are correct, but still don´t know where is the problem. See my previus post that show my coil form and dimensions. Are this correct?

See the simulation below.

Regards

Nelson

Hi Ivconic. Well this really looks like a joke, today i took my GS to a local park and after 30 minutes i got losts of coins with it. Also it shows me that GS is really a good machine, solid sound on coins and good discrimination too, same has you. I also compared with my ACE 250 and i must recognize that golden sabre is much much better. So the circuir is really working has a champ.
The only think that still keep me busy, is a good coil, to allow me to get coins and others stuff deeper.

I am really confused now, don´t know if i finish the 28 cms coil with 11.43 mH for TX, 120 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 30.2 ohms of resistance and same form has you did or i should take less turns to reach the correct impedance (19 to 22 ohms).

Here i m posting a sketch of my coil details. I also check resistance with another multimeter that shows 31.6 ohms, so the problem is still on the coil.

Anyone that can help i ll really apreciate that.

Best regards

Nelson

[nelson]

ivconic or Max.

When you place the foil on the coils, does it have an effect on inductance or impedance or values are the same when you just have the coil without the foil?

Thanks
Nelson

Hi Ivconic. Well this really looks like a joke, today i took my GS to a local park and after 30 minutes i got losts of coins with it. Also it shows me that GS is really a good machine, solid sound on coins and good discrimination too, same has you. I also compared with my ACE 250 and i must recognize that golden sabre is much much better. So the circuir is really working has a champ.
The only think that still keep me busy, is a good coil, to allow me to get coins and others stuff deeper.

I am really confused now, don´t know if i finish the 28 cms coil with 11.43 mH for TX, 120 turns, 0.25 mm wire, 30.2 ohms of resistance and same form has you did or i should take less turns to reach the correct impedance (19 to 22 ohms).

Here i m posting a sketch of my coil details. I also check resistance with another multimeter that shows 31.6 ohms, so the problem is still on the coil.

Anyone that can help i ll really apreciate that.

Best regards

Nelson

[nelson]

My final test for today.

I made a 28 cms coil, but not with 120 turns for TX. Just 80 turns. Inductance is 5.9 mH and resistance 21.6 ohms. Tomorrow i ll make RX coil with 85 turns, impedance must be around 20 ohms has i see on my calculations.
More later.
regards
Nelson

ivconic or Max.

When you place the foil on the coils, does it have an effect on inductance or impedance or values are the same when you just have the coil without the foil?

Thanks
Nelson

[Max]

ivconic or Max.

When you place the foil on the coils, does it have an effect on inductance or impedance or values are the same when you just have the coil without the foil?

Thanks
Nelson

Hi Nelson,
you are doing a good work on your coils. Let me say that I think you'll gain great experience and skills making your coils. Same thing happened to me.
As ivconic stated many times... inductance matching is not so important if you know what are you doing... just you need to match the tx operating frequency as expected (but also this point you could even change, then making minor changes e.g. on some caps in the circuit) and get a good nulling on rx. Both tx, rx matching expected resistance values within 10% tollerance.
And all your coils will rock.
To answer your question:
I always noticed that adding shield increase inductance. Adding foil you get a increase of inductance, of course. Also with aluminium/mylar I use is the same... but I get less added inductance that way (al film is really thin).
You have to remember leaving always the gap in the shield and have two different (insulated) shields for both coils. Then just use two bare wires to connect to gnd point at cable inside the coil housing. Remember, do not create closed electrical paths between the two shields, this would affect performance, so insulate each other using e.g. tape or paper.
Another trick to avoid too capacitive or inductive added effects is to space the shield from the wound. It's described on BBSailor article on fast monocoil for PI, but principle is always good if you need less cap. or ind. disturbance on shielded coils. Use polyethilene spirals for this... but in VLF just you don't need that stuff I think. I never used in VLF, but only PI coils.

Best regards,
Max