TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[metaldetector107]

more power on TGSL

Dear Ivconic
About if my tongue has been eaten by Cat, not yet,
But the problem is I don’t hear the word (money) at all ha ha ha only free
But I promise if I find a valuable treasurer I will send you 500 euro, take my word.
These days most of you making fun of me except Simon and Qiaozhe so
It is my bad times so I will leave the forum for a while to see what happens behind..
any way all of you know the live has no meaning if you don’t taste Bitter and Sweet.

Ivconic please try this new laugh waveform at home (( hwwa hwwa uoa uoa uoa hwwaaaaaaaaa))

Best wishes for all

[ivconic]

Farewell!
It is time to stop with annoying and trivial questions. This subject goes nowhere like that. No progress on TGS/TGSL moding for longer period. No ideas. No good will. Why? Mostly because subject diluted. Trivial questions everywhere. If we take only what's relevant we'll get bairly 30 pages from those 150 pages.
You are beginner. You want to learn something. Than read whole thread and try to understand - dont ask same questions again and again. Use mail or pm for that kind of conversation. Do not abuse public forum like that.
So far as i am concerned you (as anybody else) are very welcome here anytime, but ONLY with constructive approach.
It is not fair you to act like that. All the stupid questions you asked here can be answered easilly - simply read whole thread. Start from 1st page and read. Make notes. Read,read, read! Do not annoy anymore. You became the worst pest here.
Hopefully you will understand this and stop from now on with simillar behavior.

[woody]

question

i would like to ask a question but dont want to get my head bitern off well here goes
now that you have TGSL final for all those who don’t necessary have the opportunity to make their own PCB’s can some present TGSL final on stipboard
thanks

[Qiaozhi]

i would like to ask a question but dont want to get my head bitern off well here goes
now that you have TGSL final for all those who don’t necessary have the opportunity to make their own PCB’s can some present TGSL final on stipboard
thanks

I don't know if anyone has built this on stripboard, so this may be an opportunity for you to be the first. You can use this very useful program to do the layout -> http://veecad.com/

[ivconic]

i would like to ask a question but dont want to get my head bitern off well here goes
now that you have TGSL final for all those who don’t necessary have the opportunity to make their own PCB’s can some present TGSL final on stipboard
thanks

On stripboard !?

You can't be serious!? Say...aren't you md107's relative by any chance?

[Max]

i would like to ask a question but dont want to get my head bitern off well here goes
now that you have TGSL final for all those who don’t necessary have the opportunity to make their own PCB’s can some present TGSL final on stipboard
thanks

final on stripboard ! makes me laugh!

You can do... if you want... but I must say it's not so good cause you already have many pcb designs for it... some excelent !

Why make that mess with stripboard then ?

Can't you make a regular pcb ???

BTW if properly wired I think TGSL will work good even on stripboard stuff... but sure... it's a complication when/if have to debug stuff... e.g. desolder components or put wires...

In my opinion stripboard stuff and the like are really useful when you are in a hurry, have no way of make regular pcb (e.g. no pcb design available), or wanna avoid e.g. drilling phase... and other annoying stuff...

But no stripboard is like a regular PCB e.g about noise you'll get.

Kind regards,
Max

[Molzar]

Original TGS CC vs Handmade DD

Made some scope traces of original TGS with 8” concentric coil. Used same scope setting as Max’s scope traces of handmade and DD coil for comparisons of behavior.

Very different results in some, very similar in others!

Posting these as I would like to understand why differences occur and still both types coils work good? Any comment, explaination welcome!!!

Setup
Original TGS with 8” CC coil
Sense = 9
Disc mode = On
Disc Level = 0 (unless noted)
GEB = Factory set (75% CW) unless noted
Notch = Off

Used Max’s Pics, marked schematic and Index chart (Thanks Max!!!) .
Made chart to show points on pcb. Greyed section on index did not scope (F18-F24)


Molzar

[simonbaker]

Made some scope traces of original TGS with 8” concentric coil. Used same scope setting as Max’s scope traces of handmade and DD coil for comparisons of behavior.

Very different results in some, very similar in others!

Posting these as I would like to understand why differences occur and still both types coils work good? Any comment, explaination welcome!!!

Setup
Original TGS with 8” CC coil
Sense = 9
Disc mode = On
Disc Level = 0 (unless noted)
GEB = Factory set (75% CW) unless noted
Notch = Off

Used Max’s Pics, marked schematic and Index chart (Thanks Max!!!) .
Made chart to show points on pcb. Greyed section on index did not scope (F18-F24)


Molzar

Excellent work, thank you, very interesting.

Just quick observations:

1. F3, F4 -- same oscillation mess I worry about with my TGSL Final! Maybe not important????? Ha!

2. F5, F6 -- your numbers indicate 62 deg shift from F5 to F6 but looks more like 30 deg on scope -- maybe more on graph. A little confusing.

Disc signal not shift as much as I expect -- should be around 90 deg. Maybe mess noted in (2) responsible???? Or maybe comparing to RX signal not as accurate as comparing to TX signal.

Other signals not surprising, look typical to me.

3. Here is another test for voltmeter if you can: Put probe on .22 cap following the discriminator channel JFet (C15 on some schemas). Measure voltage with disc pot CW and CCW.

Do same with other capacitor and GB pot.

Regards,

-SB

[simonbaker]

i would like to ask a question but dont want to get my head bitern off well here goes
now that you have TGSL final for all those who don’t necessary have the opportunity to make their own PCB’s can some present TGSL final on stipboard
thanks

I'm interested in perfboard layouts.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=87

Regards,

-SB

[ivconic]

Fellas....!? Whatever you say, but for sure you can't be serious!? Metal detector on perfboard!??? Not some 3 components "metal detector" - but real metal detector like TGS!??? What are you saying? I can't take that as serious at all! Ok..your will, your choice, your time to be wasted. It is free world, do whatever you want. But than after....don't come here and complain why that "thing" is not working as expected. If we were serious and honest from a start (not all of us but just few people here) and if were honestly showed here how some of our handmades were made - than it would be pretty obvious why some of those do work good and some of those do not work at all.
You just can not improvise that much and than to expect some success.
No success in improvisation - not at all.
Some things must be done only on one way - proper way, or you will get no success at all.
Those few constantly complaining members here (we know who those are) were made their handmades horribly bad and improvised. All those 150 pages here were for nothing. Those do not respect all what has been posted here - they simply ignore all that posted material - they "know better". That's why we have here "pleasure" to read often complains and bedlam of idiotic questions. So that was the only reason why i am so pissed off from time to time. I have feeling that all my posts here were for nothing. They dont read and do not obey, but at the same time they are very ready to repeat stupid and trivial questions again and again.
So...if they knew better - why the heck than all those complains and questions?
And...now perfboard!!! Ahahahahahahahahaha!
Among dozen very good and tested pcb's...still there are people asking for perfboards!!! Hey..listen; perfboards!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah!
Ok... i know this attitude of mine would not earn me some credits in your eyes.... but you must respect my honesty. I will not be hypocrite, never ....instead i will tell you straightly my real opinion. I have "sharp tongue" and sometimes my attitude can offend you. I am sorry cose of that. But i will always tell you the real truth. Truth is; md on perfboard is idiotic idea. Idiotic 100%! No....not 100% but 10 000% idiotic!
Let God help you...cose i couldn't..
Very Best Regards!

[simonbaker]

Fellas....!? Whatever you say, but for sure you can't be serious!? Metal detector on perfboard!??? Not some 3 components "metal detector" - but real metal detector like TGS!??? What are you saying? I can't take that as serious at all! Ok..your will, your choice, your time to be wasted. It is free world, do whatever you want. But than after....don't come here and complain why that "thing" is not working as expected. If we were serious and honest from a start (not all of us but just few people here) and if were honestly showed here how some of our handmades were made - than it would be pretty obvious why some of those do work good and some of those do not work at all.
You just can not improvise that much and than to expect some success.
No succes in improvisation - not at all.
Some things must be done only on one way - proper way, or you will get no success at all.
Those few constantly complaining members here (we know who those are) were made their handmades horribly bad and improvised. All those 150 pages here were for nothing. Those do not respect all what has been posted here - they simply ignore all that posted material - they "know better". That's why we have here "pleasure" to read often complains and bedlam of idiotic questions. So that was the only reason why i am so pissed off from time to time. I have feeling that all my posts here were for nothing. They dont read and do not obey, but at the same time they are very ready to repeat stupid and trivial questions again and again.
So...if they knew better - why the hack than all those complains and questions?
And...now perfboard!!! Ahahahahahahahahaha!
Among dozen very good and tested pcb's...still there are people asking for perfboards!!! Hey..listen; perfboards!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah!
Ok... i know this attitude of mine would not earn me some credits in your eyes.... but you must respect my honesty. I will not be hypocrite, never ....instead i will tell you straightly my real opinion. I have "sharp tongue" and sometimes my attitude can offend you. I am sorry cose of that. But i will always tell you the real truth. Truth is; md on perfboard is idiotic idea. Idiotic 100%! No....not 100% but 10 000% idiotic!
Let God help you...cose i couldn't..
Very Best Regards!

It was worth it just to hear that! I would be disappointed if different!

So far I can say.... you're right! But "fools walk in where angels fear to tread"...

(If everyone's MD worked first time and identical... pretty boring place here...!)



(for those who don't drink...)

-SB

[ivconic]

I have very good friend here at my place. He is tv&radio servicer for long time. He has service - workshop and long tradition of being the very best servicer arround. EE and real expert for tv repairs. We are very good friends and we do meet pretty often to chat and have a coffie or some drink. Usually i do help him about pc stuff and other things i know better and he helps me about things i do not know well, especially when i stuck with my tv's or simillar household electronics. I am electronician for long period too, but i focused my energy, knowledge and mind only on one pretty narrow part of electronics. So...beleive me or not i am pretty ignorant when some of my domestic tv sets is about to be fixed. So... usually, almost by the rule, first i try to fix it and of course i do make more damage at it...burn everything what can be burned and what is possible to burn and after than when i come to point of huge despair - than is time to call him to come and save what can be saved!
Of course he is real magician - always able to fix any kind of problem (i made).
So...after retreiving life to busted device, he always have habit to remind me on one big truth - "ignorance = huge courage" !!!
So many times i have been heard that!!! So...i was and still am very "courage" man! Talking always from personal experience!
Now i am passing it to you here....

[simonbaker]

I have very good friend here at my place. He is tv&radio servicer for long time. He has service - workshop and long tradition of being the very best servicer arround. EE and real expert for tv repairs. We are very good friends and we do meet pretty often to chat and have a coffie or some drink. Usually i do help him about pc stuff and other things i know better and he helps me about things i do not know well, especially when i stuck with my tv's or simillar household electronics. I am electronician for long period too, but i focused my energy, knowledge and mind only on one pretty narrow part of electronics. So...beleive me or not i am pretty ignorant when some of my domestic tv sets is about to be fixed. So... usually, almost by the rule, first i try to fix it and of course i do make more damage at it...burn everything what can be burned and what is possible to burn and after than when i come to point of huge despair - than is time to call him to come and save what can be saved!
Of course he is real magician - always able to fix any kind of problem (i made).
So...after retreiving life to busted device, he always have habit to remind me on one big truth - "ignorance = huge courage" !!!
So many times i have been heard that!!! So...i was and still am very "courage" man! Talking always from personal experience!
Now i am passing it to you here....

Gotta give the devil his due... no question who did the hard work, sweated the long hours, tried many different designs, took hammer to efforts, tried again, spent nights laying out PCB designs, redesigned for different enclosures, and documented information for lazy gnats to copy... ignorance = bravery, perserverence + pain = courage...

Also must tribute to others who contributed knowledge, experience, schemas, pcbs, advice...

Ok back to bashing...

Cheers,

-SB

[Max]

Hi,
Hmmm... sure the stripboard, perfboard, veroboard etc etc topic is not that good when talking about MDs...

Many MDs simply will refuse to work if some e.g. critical sections will be made in naive ways over perfboard like stuff. It is a fact.

I refer mostly to good ones ...with good but critic oscillators, good but noise suffering premps and front-ends, good but noise addicted digital paths... and MCU lines crossings.

Many circuits can be made using that experimental boards... expecially not-critical stuff and low-frequency. I made a huge number of anything using perfboard approach.

But I know limitations of them.

Now... I have to say that, with proper care is possible even make things like goldscanIV with protoboards... I made it, and worked good.
But, generally speaking, I will not suggest anyone build that mess...

When frequency rise (can you do UHF or microwave stuff using that ?) or noise propagation is critical you MUST better avoid them.

About TGS , as said, I think it's possible make it work on protoboards... but then... what if you have too much noise propagation ? What if you crossed too many long lines under/over board ? How do you solve that ?

Not easy...

But still have to say... that if you know what you're doing you can make a TGS/TGSL on protoboards and get it work as well as pcb made thing.

The problem is that you must understand how to place components, how to wire things without creating e.g. ground loops, how to solder and clean the thing after in a reliable way, what kind of perfboard use for best result (they aren't all the same), etc

It's tricky... it's not safe way... it's time consuming... it's odd (think e.g. you have to desolder stuff... it's a mess)... it's addicted to any kind of mistake like bad soldering joints and lot of flux to remove...

In few words... you can also made a computer (many old stuff, academic things using e.g. Z80 were made on protoboards also!) using them... but it's not so smart idea.

I think they shine when must make a simple schematic/circuit... have no pcb or cannot made/don't want make pcb for it... and are in a hurry.

Otherwise... avoid them. Just my 5cents.

Kind regards,
Max

[Darko]

Hi Simon. Thank you very much for you interesting about my problem with TGSL. I hope, some of Guru’s today, here, will ready to help. I tried already different coils, shielding, cables and check ground connection from PCB to detector enclosure and always same thing - when I touch coil enclosure or shaft with finger, sensitivity of TGSL fall drastically! There is something wrong with GB section? I seen GB trimmer affect this? When GB under 50% all working normal but when set to reject ferrite (little up from 50%) machine loose sensitivity when touch coil enclosure or shaft with finger. How it should be work? I still don’t know how to null coil or there is problem with my TGSL? How adjusting of GB trimmer perform on TGSL? I wasn’t trying outdoor because coil wasn’t sealed with epoxy yet. I need to be 100% sure that all is right before seal coil with epoxy resign, because I have only this one coil enclosure.

Best regards to all