TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Max]

Oh, Geo...i didnt answer you...i switched on this page first..
I dont say it will never work....just have reserve until test it...
About else, yes i agree! When you see one Tesoro - you saw them all....
Nice machines, very suitable for us amateurs to build....I gave up of Bandido for now, cose i cant find those op-amps here in my country...damn MC33...blah...and TLC...blah.....
But this one (G.Sabre) have conventional components i can find and already have so i decided to try it....
Regards Geo!

P.S.
Of course i am not angry, i never been...it was joke on other thread....
Everything in life is joke for me....only way to survive these days....

Hi ivconic,
if you need substitutions you can use:
mc33078 or ls204 for mc33178 (first you have a bit more current drawn)
ts27m2cn or ls204 or lm358 too for tlc2262 (last one not really stable but can be used too)

this way you get your bandido works too and well also but have about double current drawn...
I choose originals mc33178 for consumption cause 33078 have same noise figure but current is much higher. But they are really hard to find...expecially in dip8 (plastic) version (mc33178P) that e.g. on mouser have several weeks to wait for delivery from production plant.

Instead of lm2931 you can use 7805...lm393 is better if you have AN version...but works in any case.

Yes, notch is interesting also to me.

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Latos...


Latos kanis Geo, ine Ivica...ohi Ivicha...
A po 1266....perimeno na vro kamja elementh....Aftos ine edo, den teliosa...

Heh, i think you will understand this, although it is full with mistakes...also i do not have Greek font installed yet ...so...
1266 is finished almost. I didnt put mos fet yet and few transistors....i am waiting to find originals...Alos pretty much occupied with few other projects so as you see - i am not in hurry.....I will inform you for sure, when finished.
Max thanks on tips, but i cant find even those you mentioned except LM358.....There is one big supplier here in Serbia, i talked to him and he told me those op-amps nobody asked yet from him....so if there is a major interest, he will imoprt....Huh, what an idiot?! Also if i want those, i have to order whole set - other words whole package, 1000 pieces!!!? An idiot, i tell you! So i gave up for now....
But this Golden Sabre is finished, tomorrow i will test it and see...
regards!

[Geo]

Gia soy Ivica. Ta ellhnika soy einai poly kala. Bravo. Otan teliosis me to 1266 grapse moy gia na do ta apotalesmata. (afta ta diabases h oxi)?

Hi Ivica . I wrote that your Greeks are very good. When you will finish with 1266 please tell me about the results. Now i construct a simple detector with an oscillator and a voltage comparator. I wait good results.... who knows..... maybe tomorrow to know
Regards

[ivconic]

Efharisto...


Efharisto Geo!

Yes, i'll inform you for sure.

About G.Sabre; NOT WORKING!
Same problem as Leto's; not oscillating....I changed several coils - nothing!
I have doubts in fet's i put, J107....I dont have originals, neither BF245c or simillar, so i put J107....Not same pin assignments as BF... maybe i made some other mistakes....who knows?
I have +8.23V and instead minus i have +0.78V.....
At one moment resistor 22 ohms burned (at audio output)....previously i put 8ohm speaker.....maybe because of that? So i added few ohms in series with speaker.....calm...but the rest not working!
I put ordinary 2n2222 in plastic cases, 2N2907 also in plastic cases...is there problem?
Instead ZD4V2 i put ZD4V7.....? I dont beleive this is problem....
Later i replaced J107 with BF245B...but since i had only 2 of them i replaced those in oscillator and chopper for minus....Others omitted just to test these two stages and nothing! Same as with J107...?
Coils....i checked TX with several various coils - various inductances,resistances....same - nothing!?
I am tired.....continue tomorrow with this bull****...
regards!

[Leto]

Originally Posted by ivconic
About G.Sabre; NOT WORKING!
Same problem as Leto's; not oscillating....I changed several coils - nothing!
I have doubts in fet's i put, J107....I dont have originals, neither BF245c or simillar, so i put J107....Not same pin assignments as BF... maybe i made some other mistakes....who knows?
I have +8.23V and instead minus i have +0.78V.....
At one moment resistor 22 ohms burned (at audio output)....previously i put 8ohm speaker.....maybe because of that? So i added few ohms in series with speaker.....calm...but the rest not working!
I put ordinary 2n2222 in plastic cases, 2N2907 also in plastic cases...is there problem?
Instead ZD4V2 i put ZD4V7.....? I dont beleive this is problem....
Later i replaced J107 with BF245B...but since i had only 2 of them i replaced those in oscillator and chopper for minus....Others omitted just to test these two stages and nothing! Same as with J107...?
Coils....i checked TX with several various coils - various inductances,resistances....same - nothing!?
I am tired.....continue tomorrow with this bull****...
regards!

Hi Ivconic,
Golden Sabre will work for sure,..
I had identical problem, circuit not oscillating -->
had to hook on Tx coil with following params. to get it oscillating at around 5kHz: diameter/13.5cm, turns/240, wire/0.2mm.
Have you tried with so many turns?
It's a bit odd needing so many turns to get oscillator running ,
and I wonder how many turns will be needed for original 14kHz.
(I'm waiting for spool of wire at the moment..)

Maybe there are not appropriate values listed for oscillator... everything else work perfect if you get oscillator working. Just try it with one of yours Rx coils as i did....

That resistor (22ohm) at speaker I managed also to burn once together with mpsa13.. reason: I connected the circuit to 20V battery.
If I use 12V - no problems (also substituted speaker with piezzo).
I use 245c transistors..

[ivconic]

My Bull****!!!


Yes it was Bull****.....but my Bull****!!!
I found out! I took 2N2907 from scraped pcb,without checking; it turns it was burned previously!??? Since dont have another, i put BC557 just for testing.....and....it is ALIVE AND KICKING !!!! HUUURAAAAH!!!
Resoldered J107 fets back to its places and all WORKS PERFECT!!!!
Just like Leto explained!
Bravo! Good pcb! Working device at last!
Shhheeeesh!
I am so tired right now, go to sleep......be back when awake!
Bue and regards!!!

[Unregistered]

Yes, it works, You can trust a Dutchman..
And of course Tesoro....!

Best regards

[Unregistered]

If you use plastic 2n2222 or 2n2907 look at its pin config !
For the fet you can use 2n4393 now for 0.45 eurocent at Pollin Germany http://www.pollin.de/shop/shop.php -> transistors div.
Look also for sharp prices at Reichelt in Germany.
This is Not ment as advetisment ! hope you can get al you need at sharp prices.

As for the coil look at the mail from MAX from Mars,( where on Eart this my BE ? ) the coil will also work for the golden, the caps in the bandido an golden make the differents in working freq. 10-12-14 Khz

Also look at the opencenter specs. IT works !

Good Luck

[ivconic]

April ?


April 1st or what?
Unregistered thanks for tips; dont know about else, but you coil hint must be april joke....?! Or what?

So i made G.Sabre, it works better than expected. I turn to coils last two days. First i made Unregistered coil and.....nothing - april joke....
I made several c.c.coils and still nothing - average depth with instabillity....
At the ebd i switched to double O coil and success!!!
Like it was with Classic 3, same with G.Sabre, best coils ever i made were doyble O coils for both machines.
You may trust me or not, i cant help it, but i'll give up from any other type of coil and from now one make only OO coils....much smaller in diammeter but much,much better! Stabillity superb!
Tip for G.Sabre OO coil:
Just wind so many turns on TX to get needed frequency, for example 14 kHz....Same with RX coil but wind few more turns to avoid complete resonance....lets say 13.2 kHz.....Put both coils to Alu foil....connect both foils togather and on TX gnd pin - do not connect RX on gnd at all! Avoid that! No matter schematic (wrong)....And you have best coil ever!
Regards!

[ivconic]

.....


I had to split this post due "time out" nonsence here....
Continue:

I made almost every coil posted on this forum....All bull****! I am sorry cose authors may feel offended, but it is naked truth! Sorry again!
All those coils works, but average...Most of those with large instabillity.
Author of Nexus (dont remember his name) was very right by choosing this type of coil....Not only cose of depth (extraordinary, having on mind small diammeters of coils), but great stabillity also! Very low ground influence too.
On G.Sabre everything is working perfect with this coil. I made 14.5 kHz OO coil (RX is 13.4 kHz)....and everything is working by the book!
Do not bug yourself (and me) by asking specific datas....never mind my coil, just obey my previous tip on haw to make OO coil and you'll get it by yourself. Of course, larger the diammeter - greather the depth! But do not forget greater ground influence on large coils!
Regards!

[Geo]

Hi Ivica.
Do you try OO coil with cl3 and if yes who is the difference between this OO and fisher spider? Also do you try a 20cm OO..... i think that a 10cm coil as your is very small coil. Now how big must be the common loop of two OO coils ? (i mean how mutch must be the one coil inside the other???
Regards

[Unregistered]

Hello Ivconic

First I am sorry your opencentercoil is no succes.
BUT it is no 1 april joke, DD coils are not so hard to make as opencentre.
I have made a lot opencentrecoils, they are better in disc on clean ground.
I used them also for searsing in the water (25 cm coil) , togheter with a good tunned golden it is the best combi for thresure hunting in 'fresh water'!

Again, look at the info. I dit not make jokes ! I do not feel offended .... ?!

Best regards

[ivconic]

Addition...


O.K. Unregistered, i failed to make proper coil, i suppose...Anyway, i am satisfy with this one. Why dont you register and join the club? We need more people here on this subject. Best regards!
Geo, yes i tried with CL3 and results are very good. But OO coils for CL3 are different...step up relation 1:4, you know what i mean...

Now in addition post i prepared early this morning but not posted until now:

My last post i posted with one eye focused on watch, to avoid "time out"
message here. I just finished for today (night) dealing with G.Sabre and
coils. I am so tired, exausted you may say. Whole day, yesterday i spend
experimetning with different coils. That's why my last post is so sloppy....
even with gramatical&syntax errors. Sorry people!
Few things i forgot to write here;
first, i used 0.3mm wire for TX - 97 turns on 22cm former than reassembled
and same wire used on 11cm former! Inductance is 6.7mH,
resistance 23.7 ohms.
I also used 0.4mm wire for RX.....sheeesh! I dont remember that i measured
inductance at all !!!??? Sheeesh!
So, 145 turns for RX...(finall RX coil).I also made 3 more RX coils with turns
from 88 to 160, and with wire from 0.3mm to 0.5mm. Than i experimented with all
RX coils i made....All of those 4 RX coils worked pretty good? Which leads me to
conclusion than G.Sabre RX input have sort of wide "band width"?! Finally i decided
to use 145 turns RX coil cose noticed better performances than with others...
I made farady cage with Al foil on both coils. I think this is crucial for
stabillity. Also way how to connect F.cage in overall setup.
I noticed quite obvious variance beetwen schematic and pcb. There is not connection
between RX inputs and gnd on pcb, while it is made on schematic!?
I wasnt sure which way is correct (although checked all Tesoro schematics and saw
no connection on those), so decided to try both ways and see the difference.
There is difference in stabillity; pretty unstabile when RX connected to gnd, despite
F.Cage (coupling, twisted pair or something else....), never mind.
But when RX not connected on gnd (respecting only pcb), coil is very stabile.
To check that, i "punched" cables,coil,pcb....shaked,twisted....tortured it on many
ways.....and it was very cool! Not even one false signal! Very,very good!
But! The secret is in way how to connect F.cage; i connected both AL foils very
shortly (as short as could be, due certain movements while adjusting coils)...
Than both Al foils (F.Cage) connected also shortest way to gnd side of TX.
Than used 1 coaxial and one "twin lead" cable and made connection with pcb.Coaxial
is for TX and twin lead for RX. And that is all. Perfectly stabile.
Oh i forgot, i used 12cm former for both coils to wind. Very small, isnt it?
But results were astonishing! 2cm coin detecting at 27cm distance in all metal mode and
22 cm in disc mode! I can only imagine results with larger diammeter coil!?
Cigarretes package detected over 40cm! Cola can over 50cm !
Discrimination is very good, much better than Classic 3...Sensitivity to small gold
items also very good, much,much better than Classic 3!
Somehow, i have feeling that this is not all. I did all this very sloppy, experimenting
all day, without concrete concept. Just "playing" with different coils and setups....
At the end, very tired, i lost concentration and decided to take rest for a while, until
be able to make any conclusions from that experiences and establish proper method for
making this type of coil by some standards in future.
I also wish to experiment with larger diammeters and see limits.
Results are more than good. But remember that all is done on the table, in workshop!
It will need to take out this coil and put it under real tests, in real conditions.
I am encouraged even now, cose it showed great stabillity. Comparing with my previous
experiences with CL3 and other coils (big number of those) i have great expectations
from this coil on the real field,outdoor....But we will see.
Dont forget great Minelab and its DD coils, probably the best coils on market today!
I always keep thinking on TS800 18cm coil for Musketeer, which showed best performances
ever in my not so poor experience on that matter.
DD and OO coils are pretty much simillar, almost the same concept....so if Minelab can do,
why not we?
I tried to keep preferences of coil as close to original as i can. So inductances are
pretty close to original.....arround 6mH...some to 6.5mH....Resistances are also close....
22 to 23 ohms....I used wires from 0.3mm...some to 0.4mm...
Only one thing bugs me with this G.Sabre i made;
When switching ON, at first, there is constant audio tone for 3-4 seconds, than decays and
stops. Than it is ready and start working perfect! Is this normal!?
If it is not, than i suspect some capacitor maybe not good, or maybe some fet or transistor?
Cose i used very old J107 fets from very,very old and rusty scraped pcb...dirty and look
100 years old! They all looking good, but those are very old components...."exausted" much!
Also, i put very old (but tested and good) Bi-polars....Heh, 2 of them are 4.7uF and 2 of them
3.3 uF....I couldnt find 4 same....so i put 3.3 just to test device, and those stayed on it.
Also i put old elco's (220uF), but also previously tested with cap. meter.
In TX i put BC557, in audio put MPSA14....i forgot; in TX and in chopper there are 2 BF245b
still (not replaced with J107)....the rest of fets are J107's....
IC's are all originals - no replacements.
So, why it "singing" when switched ON for few seconds? Anybody have any idea?
Regards!
P.S.
Be free to make simillar coil. I am not joking at all, not lying for sure!
Make your own coil and see. Later post here your results. I would like to see if any
differences? Also i would like to hear some more tips here about this (now free to say)
very,very good detector!

[Unregistered]

Hello Ivconic.

I have regestration, forgot the password.
Nice to see you good succes, the pcb form the golden is good, the schematics from the tesoros have some small errors, the ground for the receiver is made in the coil, this for the twisted pair effect, use 2x2 twisterd cable ( see cat 7 network cable ) Have seen Belden cable 2x2 with flex screening, never has seen it for sale, somebody nows ?
The startup signal is the batt. check, this is the part with the 10uf tant. cap and fet and resistor to minus.
For the bibolar 4.7 uf a frend used 2 smd 10uf caps connected togeter.
For fets I use the 2n4393.

Good luck !

[Qiaozhi]

Author of Nexus (dont remember his name) was very right by choosing this type of coil....Not only cose of depth (extraordinary, having on mind small diammeters of coils), but great stabillity also! Very low ground influence too.

The Nexus designer is Georgi Chaushev.